Conspiracies

[Norkles]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

You should beware of watching documentaries and YouTube videos for information about complex technical subjects. There's a reason that engineering school isn't a miniseries -- video may look good, but "looks good on tv" does not equal sold facts or logical reasoning.

The many failings of Stalcup's documentary have been gone over many times. It's junk for those who can't be bothered to read the work of experts. You might as well get your news from the X Files.

Can you give a reliable link disproving Stalcup's allegations? As of yet I haven't seen anything that deals/disproves with his theory.


I'm well aware that aviation accidents are complex. I read NTSB accident reports for fun. Hearing Stalcup's theory was a new path to a subject that even the NTSB hasn't been able to nail down. Stalcup brought up questions the investigators hadn't even looked at.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by Norkles

Can you give a reliable link disproving Stalcup's allegations? As of yet I haven't seen anything that deals/disproves with his theory..

Let's start with the basics:

He has no evidence at all for his theory. None. Someone thinks they saw a streak in the sky, that's it.

The radar tracks do not show anything ascending at Mach 4, as he claims.

Against his nonsense, you have the careful reconstruction of the plane -- ultimately, nearly all was recovered-- which clearly shows an internal explosion, not a missile strike.

For a very basic debunking of Stalcup, you can start with:
http://www.businessinsider.com/fligh...-claims-2013-7

The most detailed coverage is in the aerospace industry's leading publication, Aviation Week, which is unfortunately behind a paywall.

In stuff that's open access, see also:
http://www.askthepilot.com/twa-800-revisited/

which notes that the documentary is so shoddy with facts that the plane shown in the posters


is a twin engine aircraft (the 747 has four)

Really, if you want to know something about this, get the NTSB report. Its here:
http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/A...s/AAR0003.aspx

Its done by aviation professionals, the kind of people who know how many engines a 747 has. . .

[Norkles]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Let's start with the basics:

He has no evidence at all for his theory. None. Someone thinks they saw a streak in the sky, that's it.

The radar tracks do not show anything ascending at Mach 4, as he claims.

Against his nonsense, you have the careful reconstruction of the plane -- ultimately, nearly all was recovered-- which clearly shows an internal explosion, not a missile strike.

For a very basic debunking of Stalcup, you can start with:
http://www.businessinsider.com/fligh...-claims-2013-7

The most detailed coverage is in the aerospace industry's leading publication, Aviation Week, which is unfortunately behind a paywall.

In stuff that's open access, see also:
http://www.askthepilot.com/twa-800-revisited/

which notes that the documentary is so shoddy with facts that the plane shown in the posters


is a twin engine aircraft (the 747 has four)

Really, if you want to know something about this, get the NTSB report. Its here:
http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/A...s/AAR0003.aspx

Its done by aviation professionals, the kind of people who know how many engines a 747 has. . .

I still have questions. No cases of 747s exploding or fuel tanks blowing up since coming into service in Jan 1970. Any real design flaw would've surfaced with a fire or explosion in the 1970s. Yet there were none.
The only thing I do see are a couple of cases involving 737s. No 747-100s or -200s, or even -300s.
As I said I'm not one to believe in conspiracy theories but TWA 800 has a lot of unanswered questions that I wish to be addressed before I fully believe the official report.
As for the poster for the docu chalk that up to the designer who should've known better.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by Norkles

I still have questions. No cases of 747s exploding or fuel tanks blowing up since coming into service in Jan 1970. Any real design flaw would've surfaced with a fire or explosion in the 1970s. Yet there were none.

The defect was identified. Its a wiring in the center tank fuel compartment, igniting fuel vapors in a nearly empty tank

The Boeing engineers were quite properly very cautious in their design of fuel tanks to eliminate all possible sources of ignition. There's just one electrical wiring bundle which enters the compartment-- of necessity, it powers the Fuel Quantity Indication System.

Its only in a very rare and unfortunate sequence of events that will cause that wiring to fail.

You mistakenly assume that
a) Boeing's 747 design has remained the same since January 1970 (it hasn't)
and that
b) failures occur in new aircraft at the same rate as older ones.

TWA 800 (N93119) was manufactured in 1971, it was a very early 747-100; the very first 747 was delivered in 1970. By 1996, when TWA 800 exploded, it was twenty five years old, with just under 17,000 flights, and a little less than 100,000 hours on the airframe. That's a lot of hours . . .

Assuming that the experience with newly manufactured aircraft and ones at the end of their lives will be similar is clearly wrong. Older planes have many more problems . . .

[Girlfan]

There is a huge, top secret underground facility hidden deep in the Mojave Desert in the US where all these conspiracy theories are dreamed up......

[philll_77]

Originally Posted by Girlfan

There is a huge, top secret underground facility hidden deep in the Mojave Desert in the US where all these conspiracy theories are dreamed up......

That's what they want you to think...

[MaxJoker]

Hey either or both of those could be true

Let`s just say after learning my new GF Derek might be a man , I`m suspicious of everything right now



Thanks once again and full credit goes to Mal`s detective agency and wholesale non-Halal butchers for giving me the heads up



Mind you the fact Derek`s hands and balls were even bigger than mine should have been a clue I guess

[winetippler]

I don't know if any VEFers have seen or heard of the History Channel Series, Hunting Hitler.

The synopsis seems to be largely based on the work of a British journalist, Gerrard Wlliams and his research leading to his small independent film, The Grey Wolf.
Briefly, Williams claims to have compelling evidence that Hitler did not die in 1945 and fled to South America via Denmark and Spain.

I am very sceptical about conspracy theories as a rule because by their very nature they cannot be proved, lack of evidence etc. However, I think this is different because it has been so meticously researched over the last 10 years and there is so much evidence that backs up the theory.

Of course this had all been debunked by established historians, but my experiences of dealing with academics, (thankfully they have been few), has led me to believe that they are amongst some of the most closed minded, inflexible, arrogant individuals alive.

I try to be careful in my watching and reading of Nazi Germany, I am interested in that period of history but it does not fascinate me.

So my question to you is have a look at some of the episodes, you can search and find them on Fmovies.se, stick Fmovies into Google and it appears.

Tell me what you think.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by winetippler

I don't know if any VEFers have seen or heard of the History Channel Series, Hunting Hitler.

{snip}

Tell me what you think.

Haven't seen it, but I recall that this sort of thing was a tabloid staple for many years -- the usual object of obsession wasn't Hitler, but rather Martin Bormann, who was meant to be living in Argentina or Brasil.

The odd thing about the Nazis was that, to some extent, it was true. Not top figures like Hitler or Bormann-- but sadistic concentration camp guards, and even higher up SS figures, they really were living in places like Syria, Egypt and Brasil, Argentina.

The most extraordinary was Josef Mengele, who I think is unique in that that he was living in South America and could have seen "The Boys from Brazil"; can anyone else think of a case where a conspiracy theory is as "right" as this?

[seany65]

Well, I know one conspiracy theory that wasn't true:

That Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and could (and was probably planning to) use them against Britain within 45 minutes.

There is also the conspiracy theory that is right:

That somehow 'they' would manage to keep the war criminal 'Tory Bliar' out of prison, even though he should've got solitary confinement with no contact with any human, in flesh or image, for the rest of his life.