Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by palo5

Do you now understand why the EU has no need at all to be lectured about "democracy" by the UK?

If they've got any democracy at all it's thanks to us !

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by palo5

Do you now understand why the EU has no need at all to be lectured about "democracy" by the UK?

Your answer interests me, because I think you get more democracy from the EU, and less by moving away from it

Out of 751 MEPs at present, 73 are from Britain; about 10%. Therefore European law, to which Britain must conform, is enacted by a chamber, 90% of whom are not accountable to or elected by the British people. If Europe really was a country then that would be fair enough because Britain would only be a part of Europe in such a case. But Britain is a sovereign nation and our experience of having our laws set by MEPs from other countries, not to mention the other 27 in the Council of Ministers, is not a very democratic experience.

Britain should govern Britain. QED.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

If they've got any democracy at all it's thanks to us !

Ha ha ha!

I know you delude yourselves about this, but don't know how anyone can believe it. Please explain

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by palo5

Ha ha ha!

I know you delude yourselves about this, but don't know how anyone can believe it. Please explain

Its a history thing, Palo. Round about July 1940 there wasn't much democracy left on the continent. Switzerland, Sweden and Finland, and that was about it.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Out of 751 MEPs at present, 73 are from Britain; about 10%. Therefore European law, to which Britain must conform, is enacted by a chamber, 90% of whom are not accountable to or elected by the British people. If Europe really was a country then that would be fair enough because Britain would only be a part of Europe in such a case. But Britain is a sovereign nation and our experience of having our laws set by MEPs from other countries, not to mention the other 27 in the Council of Ministers, is not a very democratic experience.

It's very democratic, but as noted above, you don't have a realistic concept of democracy anyway

If all you want is UK ruled by a rigged local election system, why not admit it, instead of saying 27 other nation states are "undemocratic"? Anyone can check this fraud online. That's why you're a laughing stock

Personally, I don't care how you elect people. You can elect elect a zombie, for all I care, that's your problem

But I do object when you think the EU has a "democratic deficit" compared with the UK, because actually you're about a century behind them

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by palo5

It's very democratic, but as noted above, you don't have a realistic concept of democracy anyway

If all you want is UK ruled by a rigged local election system, why not admit it, instead of saying 27 other nation states are "undemocratic"? Anyone can check this fraud online. That's why you're a laughing stock

Personally, I don't care how you elect people. You can elect elect a zombie, for all I care, that's your problem

But I do object when you think the EU has a "democratic deficit" compared with the UK, because actually you're about a century behind them

I never suggested that the other 27 members are not democratic. My point is that they should not enact laws to govern me, any more than British MEPs should enact laws to govern them. I do not want the European parliament to set laws over my country. This seems a simple point to me and I wonder why you don't get it.

[Blue126]

The UK voted to leave the Eu for one reason and one reason only "immigration".

We in the UK are paying for this "immigration" by working longer(retirement age) and our healthcare is on its arse! this is why we voted to leave. We are paying for this, in more ways than one could have forcast.

Now this is their own making in Brussels, do not blame the people of the UK for seeing their oversight...

I predict in the coming years...the internet will be so policed, we will be back sending pigeons to our friends and the internet is doomed!

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by Blue126

We in the UK are paying for this "immigration" by working longer(retirement age) and our healthcare is on its arse! this is why we voted to leave. We are paying for this, in more ways than one could have forecast.

Blaming immigrants now for people living longer and the NHS keeping them alive longer? Jeez. Lets go back to the good old days when we could be expected to die in our sixties.

Have you been in a hospital or nursing home recently?

The beds are full but overwhelmingly of elderly (mainly white) British people.
Those that are caring and treating for them are many immigrants.

Get rid of these immigrants and you really will have a healthcare system on it's arse. Leave the customs union and those of us that export and help fund it will also be on our arses along with the rest of the UK economy.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

Blaming immigrants now for people living longer and the NHS keeping them alive longer? Jeez. Lets go back to the good old days when we could be expected to die in our sixties.

Have you been in a hospital or nursing home recently?

The beds are full but overwhelmingly of elderly (mainly white) British people.
Those that are caring and treating for them are many immigrants.

Get rid of these immigrants and you really will have a healthcare system on it's arse. Leave the customs union and those of us that export and help fund it will also be on our arses along with the rest of the UK economy.

Solely with regards to immigration.

I'm the polar opposite of vinceprince regarding the Brexit vote but I fully agree with him with regards to immigration. Immigration was not a big factor for me at the referendum, we are living in a global age, there are people from every country in the UK and for the most part we work together with no real issues. Yes some poorer areas may have a higher density of immigrants but as long as they want to work and contribute to the economy I see no problem. If we have a shortage in some areas and they cannot be filled by British people we should still seek to bring in new talent alongside tackling any existing skills shortages within the country.
In the campaign I heard a phrase along the lines of if we need a Doctor we should be free to bring in the best available and not be limited to applications from the EU, the unwritten testimony there is that some believe we would need to offer the post to possibly lower skilled EU workers rather than seeking out the best internationally, to me that is totally wrong. Any country should be free to attract the brightest talents regardless of where they come from.
Now we all know both sides twist facts so there may have been a degree of muck raking going on but the principle remains.

I voted leave solely out of a desire to to hand political control of our country back to Westminster and when done to increase autonomy for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by ********

I think you may be in a minority there. I've lost count of how many times I've heard peolpe complaining that they don't hear English spoken when walking down the street...

It depends where you live, some groups tend to congregate in certain areas that almost become ghettos, this is a mistake and people should be integrated. It's chicken and egg stuff, did the solution cause a minor problem to grow out of control? It should not have been allowed to get this far as that is counter-productive.
I work with people from all over the world and speak with them as I would any of my outside work acquaintances. I think that is far more common than you think.

Originally Posted by ********

Presumably because the Polish immigrants are cheerfully chatting to each other while the miserable British all try to avoid eye contact and any form of verbal interaction.

Again it depends where you live really, there are many like me who will speak to anyone regardless of race,faith etc, mind you if you spend too much time with that large percentage of insular ignorant tossers in London I could understand it. Making eye contact with a Londoner is worse than admitting you have had sex with their partner (without making eye contact again of course )

Up North we tend to make eye contact far more regularly as he have less hangups than Cockneys.