Current Politics in the United Kingdom - Page 3

nudgenudge · February 23rd, 2016, 10:40 AM

>>'Champagne Socialist's'

Ahh yes, "Lord" Kinnock ,the windbag from Wales springs to mind
Managed to wangle himself a job as an EU Commissioner,just one of the many failed domestic politicians with their snout in the EU trough

**DB83** · February 23rd, 2016, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nudgenudge

>>'Champagne Socialist's'

Ahh yes, "Lord" Kinnock ,the windbag from Wales springs to mind
Managed to wangle himself a job as an EU Commissioner,just one of the many failed domestic politicians with their snout in the EU trough

As much as it grieves me, I must agree.

More than that, he was seen on the news the other day extolling the virtues of that corrupt establishment that we now know to be the EU. Even the missus got on the gravy train and became a MEP.

Evident from what was reported today (Tuesday) we will get the government supported spin. And since that side of the argument has the cash they can afford to poison the minds of the common man.

Cameron does not really care since he is a 'dead' politician. But he still would not want to leave a legacy that it was his own actions that inspired the voting public to get out.

Maybe he thinks that there is a lucrative role for him in the European Commission upon his retirement from UK politics- a vote of thanks for keeping the UK 'in the club'.

**scoundrel** · February 23rd, 2016, 11:36 PM

Labour ex-minister Alan Johnson expressed the view today that there is not a single progressive reason to vote to leave the EU. He might be correct; but even though I like to flatter myself that I have a mildly enlightened and progressive bias I have not forgotten when all the progressive voices were gung-ho in favour oif adopting the Euro. That was a damn fool experiment (so Blair was all for it) and keeping Britain on the pound sterling is the best thing Gordon Brown ever did, no matter what his motives were. If I vote to stay in it won't be because it is "progressive"; it will be because I don't tear things down without a good enough reason.

If it were a vote to join the EU as in 1975, I would vote No. I wish we had voted No in 1975; but we didn't, and that's gone. In 1975 we had a strong network of trade relationships with our Commonwealth which we betrayed when we joined the EU and which we will not regain merely by leaving. Frankly, we burned our boats and will be far more alone in the world if we leave the EU now than we were in 1973, before we joined. This is not Celebrity Dancing on Ice; it is very serious business.

**Brecht** · February 24th, 2016, 08:09 AM

Britain is not going to leave the EU. The British establishment knows it would be a shot in its own foot. So a Brexit was never seriously considered during the most recent "negotiations". They were about Britain demanding privileges (once again) which will be guaranteed by the EU and, in return, the British government will advise the British people to vote for the stay. Such "renegotiations" have been happening ever since the 1975 referendum. The rants against the evil EU machine (remember Margaret "I want my money back" Thatcher) are the only reason the Tories still exist on the British political landscape. Cameron is facing a serious problem with the nationalist UKIP which keeps attracting many Tory voters, so he has to be the Eurosceptic Turbo-Brit for a while.

**suzchad** · February 24th, 2016, 10:57 AM

What annoys me is the TV media manipulation of the result (esp the BBC)like in the election where all polls stated neck and neck only for Cameron to get a majority. Who wasnt disappointed and surprised by the result then?
By far those who comment on the subject (incl most of the press)say lets get out (I agree), yet every poll says remain leads by about 10 percentish. I would love to think that a good 2 to 1 in favour of leaving is the true figure, after all there arent many who havent been blighted by the economic migrant situation (resulting in lack of jobs, keeping wages low, business owners drafting them in by the thousand-(eg sportsdirect in derbyshire etc). I speak as the son of a migrant in the sixties..there isnt enough jobs or services to go round. Liberal middle england can say help the migrants from there nimby houses in the country where migrants are not apparent.

**thunderfly** · February 24th, 2016, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philll_77

I'd vote to leave, but wonder how the questions will be worded. I don't think it will be In or Out.

1- Stay in.
2- Begin 25 year consultation process to investigate..blah, blah, blah.

Quangos and Lawyers please form an orderly queue at the trough.

I'm assuming that because Britain is already 'in' it will mean that the only question given on the voting form will be Do You Want Britain To Leave The EU? This could (and probably does) mean that if there is massive voter apathy and hardly anyone bothers to go out and vote, then nothing will change. They aren't going to turn around and tell us we are leaving The EU because there weren't enough votes to stay in (due to voter apathy). A bit like saying if no one goes out and votes at the next general election, the current political party will stay in power for another four years.
Surely this is a huge advantage for the the 'stay in' crowd.

Mudmonster · February 24th, 2016, 03:43 PM

Here is my simplified take on the issue-

Do you like UKIP and Nigel Farage?
If yes then vote to leave!

If no then vote to leave, as Brexit will render Farage and UKIP a redundant force in politics.

**m100** · February 24th, 2016, 03:44 PM

the choices on the voting form are

Leave
Remain

as decided by the electoral commission who changed it from in/out to justify their own existence and confuse the high proportion of thick as pig-shit voters in england who won't even understand the options.

**Oswald** · February 24th, 2016, 07:07 PM

This issue is not about party politics. To prove this we have a situation where two leaders of completely different political persuasions, namely Farage of UKIP and Galloway of Respect, have joined with others from the Conservatives and Labour to set up the Grassroots Out campaign.

The media is stirring up apathy by orchestrating a snidey negative reaction to an immensely important referendum. It has also been reported that the BBC have received money from the EU to provide "appropriate coverage" of the issues. Having watched the BBC news website in recent days regarding this matter I get the impression they are giving Cameron and the pro-EU voices far more leniency and noticeably less scrutiny.

**otokonomidori** · February 24th, 2016, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brecht

Britain is not going to leave the EU.

That's certainly the fervent hope in Euroland because they know the whole damned thing is f*cked if if we depart - the EU is not exactly overendowed with successful major economies

February 23rd, 2016, 11:36 PM	#23
scoundrel Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: England Posts: 26,237 Thanks: 162,389 Thanked 278,442 Times in 26,182 Posts	Labour ex-minister Alan Johnson expressed the view today that there is not a single progressive reason to vote to leave the EU. He might be correct; but even though I like to flatter myself that I have a mildly enlightened and progressive bias I have not forgotten when all the progressive voices were gung-ho in favour oif adopting the Euro. That was a damn fool experiment (so Blair was all for it) and keeping Britain on the pound sterling is the best thing Gordon Brown ever did, no matter what his motives were. If I vote to stay in it won't be because it is "progressive"; it will be because I don't tear things down without a good enough reason. If it were a vote to join the EU as in 1975, I would vote No. I wish we had voted No in 1975; but we didn't, and that's gone. In 1975 we had a strong network of trade relationships with our Commonwealth which we betrayed when we joined the EU and which we will not regain merely by leaving. Frankly, we burned our boats and will be far more alone in the world if we leave the EU now than we were in 1973, before we joined. This is not Celebrity Dancing on Ice; it is very serious business. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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February 23rd, 2016, 10:40 AM	#21
nudgenudge Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 215 Thanks: 242 Thanked 2,677 Times in 211 Posts	>>'Champagne Socialist's' Ahh yes, "Lord" Kinnock ,the windbag from Wales springs to mind Managed to wangle himself a job as an EU Commissioner,just one of the many failed domestic politicians with their snout in the EU trough

February 24th, 2016, 08:09 AM	#24
Brecht Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 10,657 Thanks: 180,485 Thanked 188,138 Times in 10,453 Posts	Britain is not going to leave the EU. The British establishment knows it would be a shot in its own foot. So a Brexit was never seriously considered during the most recent "negotiations". They were about Britain demanding privileges (once again) which will be guaranteed by the EU and, in return, the British government will advise the British people to vote for the stay. Such "renegotiations" have been happening ever since the 1975 referendum. The rants against the evil EU machine (remember Margaret "I want my money back" Thatcher) are the only reason the Tories still exist on the British political landscape. Cameron is facing a serious problem with the nationalist UKIP which keeps attracting many Tory voters, so he has to be the Eurosceptic Turbo-Brit for a while.

February 24th, 2016, 10:57 AM	#25
suzchad Vintage Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 656 Thanks: 1,652 Thanked 7,761 Times in 639 Posts	What annoys me is the TV media manipulation of the result (esp the BBC)like in the election where all polls stated neck and neck only for Cameron to get a majority. Who wasnt disappointed and surprised by the result then? By far those who comment on the subject (incl most of the press)say lets get out (I agree), yet every poll says remain leads by about 10 percentish. I would love to think that a good 2 to 1 in favour of leaving is the true figure, after all there arent many who havent been blighted by the economic migrant situation (resulting in lack of jobs, keeping wages low, business owners drafting them in by the thousand-(eg sportsdirect in derbyshire etc). I speak as the son of a migrant in the sixties..there isnt enough jobs or services to go round. Liberal middle england can say help the migrants from there nimby houses in the country where migrants are not apparent.

February 24th, 2016, 03:43 PM	#27
Mudmonster Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 319 Thanks: 156,441 Thanked 7,127 Times in 319 Posts	Here is my simplified take on the issue- Do you like UKIP and Nigel Farage? If yes then vote to leave! If no then vote to leave, as Brexit will render Farage and UKIP a redundant force in politics.

February 24th, 2016, 03:44 PM	#28
m100 Vintage Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,505 Thanks: 5,109 Thanked 11,919 Times in 1,489 Posts	the choices on the voting form are Leave Remain as decided by the electoral commission who changed it from in/out to justify their own existence and confuse the high proportion of thick as pig-shit voters in england who won't even understand the options.

February 24th, 2016, 07:07 PM	#29
Oswald Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 13,112 Thanks: 51,073 Thanked 282,462 Times in 13,802 Posts	This issue is not about party politics. To prove this we have a situation where two leaders of completely different political persuasions, namely Farage of UKIP and Galloway of Respect, have joined with others from the Conservatives and Labour to set up the Grassroots Out campaign. The media is stirring up apathy by orchestrating a snidey negative reaction to an immensely important referendum. It has also been reported that the BBC have received money from the EU to provide "appropriate coverage" of the issues. Having watched the BBC news website in recent days regarding this matter I get the impression they are giving Cameron and the pro-EU voices far more leniency and noticeably less scrutiny.