Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by hoss

Democratic accountability means to me that a politician has a stance and tries to convince voters of his point of view.
Populism means that a politician changes his stance according to the perceived opinion of the majority of voters, only to remain in power.
It annoys me that there is an inflation of polls and surveys which put politicials in a permanent campaign mode. It is revealing that many politicians openly use marketing slang about "positioning" themselves, "selling" policy or "branding" a political party.

But you can't fool all of the people all of the time; and once you are rumbled the people lose their confidence in the whole thing. This in turn leads to ever diminishing voter turnout. The rot starts at the top and works down to the roots.

Voters are in rebellion against an establishment which has been selling them out for a very long time.

[blueboy199]

hoss, I note that you declined to offer a further explanation to account for the reduction in voter participation in most member states over the last 40 or so years. Most would probably agree with scoundrel (voter alienation).

And as you set so much value upon democratic legitimation, tell me how the members of the House of Lords come into office![/QUOTE]

Indeed hoss, the House of Lords is unelected. Most in the UK view it as an anachronism. We don't particularly like our politicians appointed, though you seem to have no issue with it. The big difference between the Lords and the Council / Commission, however, is that the former is largely powerless. The Parliament Act 1911 (and 1949) sought to formally limit the House of Lords, so that it could ultimately do little more than delay the will of the House of Commons (the elected chamber).

http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/parliamentacts/

As we all know, hoss - whatever our different view on the unelected nature of the Council / Commission - the power in the EU does not lie with the elected Parliament. The "checks and balances" you referenced in an earlier comment are reversed.

[hoss]

Originally Posted by blueboy199

hoss, I note that you declined to offer a further explanation to account for the reduction in voter participation in most member states over the last 40 or so years. Most would probably agree with scoundrel (voter alienation).

So do I. But I don´t think that the EU is to blame for that voter alienation. I believe it is the result of abusing the EU as a scapegoat for everything that goes wrong in the member states. Scoundrel rightfully criticized the fearmongering tactics of weak politicians. Scapegoating is a variant of this weak tactic. One has to take into consideration that there is a constant power struggle between the national MPs and those of the EU Parliament. The more rights are transferred to a supranational level, the less significant the national parliaments will be. National MPs therefore have a natural interest to denigrate the EU. National MPs are closer to the national media, so national policy is overrepresented in the media as compared to EU policy. Voter participation is higher in national elections because voters are made to believe that national parliaments are the ones that matter more.

[hoss]

Originally Posted by blueboy199

As we all know, hoss - whatever our different view on the unelected nature of the Council / Commission - the power in the EU does not lie with the elected Parliament. The "checks and balances" you referenced in an earlier comment are reversed.

You are right, in the end the power is in the hands of the heads of state of the member countries. But it has to be taken into consideration that the political system of the EU is not static. The EU Parliament has gained a lot of power within the last decades. It started out as a sort of retirement home for veteran politicians. The MPs of today are mostly highly competent professionals who actively search to improve almost all aspects of society. On the other hand this increase of democratic power on the supranational level also means a decreasing influence of national idiosyncrasies.

[haroldeye]

Corbyn is the opposite of a populist. He had a manifesto with complete costings and precise detail of how it would all be paid for.

No he didn't. He has a wish list of jaded ideas from some 1960s polytechnic students union and intends to pay for them by err ask John. The same John McDonnel that was sacked from his job by Livingstone before he bankrupted London.

Strange you should argue for both the EU and Corbyn. Jezza is a long time leaver/never should h joined.

[haroldeye]

Hoss mate. The EU Parliament has all the power of a wet fart. It is not mean't to have power but to be there to rubber stamp the Commission. The centre of power in the EU is the Commission and the ECJ.

[hoss]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

Hoss mate. The EU Parliament has all the power of a wet fart. It is not mean't to have power but to be there to rubber stamp the Commission. The centre of power in the EU is the Commission and the ECJ.

The EU Parliament, like most legislative bodies, has the power to influence the executive by threatening to block the budget. As I mentioned before, the EU Parliament is gaining influence at the expense of the EU Council.
The irony of the whole affair is that an increase of direct democracy on EU level means a decrease of power of national parliaments and their governments. Strengthening the EU Parliament means increasing European integration. So, asking for more consideration of national idiosyncrasies and more representation on a supranational level at the same time is quite a bit contradictory.

[haroldeye]

I wasn't asking for more supranational representation, the whole lot of them can be made redundant tomorrow and the cost savings used for something sensible. Neither do I want Euro integration nor a federal Unholy Roman Empire.

[ultimatewarlord]

Originally Posted by ********

Corbyn is the opposite of a populist. He had a manifesto with complete costings and precise detail of how it would all be paid for. A populist is someone like Trump who just makes nonsense but superficially attractive claims like "we will build a wall and Maxico will pay for it".

May was more like a populist at the last election. You might not agree with Corbyn, but he sticks to his principals and justifies them to you. May just has slogans and no detail or political philosophy that tells you how she might act in future, beyond always looking out for her own self interest.

Oh, sorry. You were being serious, weren't you.

[judy84]

David Davis and Michel Barnier today shook hands and declared they have made a 'decisive' step in sealing a Brexit transition deal.
The EU chief negotiator and Mr Davis announced the dramatic breakthrough at a press conference in Brussels.
Under the terms, the transition period will end in December 2020, while the UK has also given ground on free movement rights and fishing quota rules.
However, Britain will be free to negotiate and sign trade agreements after the formal exit date next March. Gibraltar was also explicitly included in the scope of the deal.
The hard-fought package is now set to be signed off by EU leaders at a summit later this week.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-warnings.html