Current or modern politics in the United States

[tsunamiSD]

Pence Once Opined That Lying, Having Affairs Made A President Unfit To Serve

Vice President Mike Pence has drastically lowered his moral standard for a President since Bill Clinton was in office, according to a Monday CNN report. In the late 1990s, he reportedly wrote two columns titled "The Two Schools of Thought on Clinton" and "Why Clinton Must Resign or Be Impeached," both outlining how Clinton’s affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky and subsequent lies about it disqualified him from serving as President. He wrote: "In a day when reckless extramarital sexual activity is manifesting itself in our staggering rates of illegitimacy and divorce, now more than ever, America needs to be able to look to her First Family as role models of all that we have been and can be again." He reportedly added that it was Republicans' responsibility to remove Clinton from office, even if it cost them politically.

So now we have Trump with his many extra-marital affairs; someone might say, "Well, his aren't proven yet" but (a) they're as "proven" as Clinton's were when Republicans started calling for his resignation, (b) Clinton's didn't involve possible illegal payments of hush money and (c) we all know that Pence will never ever say Trump should resign or be impeached, no matter what. Even though that would make him the Most Powerful Man in the Free World, he won't say that.
What we have now is a climate in which principles matter most when you can weaponize them to use against their opponents. Obama foes were outraged one time when that president wore a tan suit. Trump could show up dressed like a giant otter and they'd overlook it or even say it showed great presidential concern for the environment or something. That's all moral outrage has become - a way to hammer the opposition. So, here is what there are as possibilities:

1. Pence never really thought it was immoral for the President of the United States to have an affair and lie about it. He just said that to try and harm a Democrat.
2. Pence thinks it is immoral for the President of the United States to have an affair and lie about it but he'll keep quiet about it because his party's interests are more important.
3. Pence's views on this have evolved and he now doesn't think it matters if the President of the United States has an affair and lies about it. In which case, he should say so and apologize to Bill Clinton.

[tsunamiSD]

That's what happens when someone doesn't look far enough ahead to consider consequences...



Conservative Think-Tanker Accidentally Argues That Single Payer Could Save Americans $2 Trillion

[LadyLuck]

I read these stories that trumpet the merits of single payer systems and one question I have is how are they planning to circumvent the shortage of doctors when they begin leaving the field? More and more doctors now are limiting or completely eliminating Medicare patients from their patient rolls already. Managed heath care companies seem to love Medicare patients as opposed to those with other insurers but doctors are not so fond of Medicare. When the article proudly claims that they will save money by not paying the doctors as much I have to wonder.

When Obamacare was rolled out it was assumed that all young, healthy Americans were going to pony up and buy health insurance (as opposed to taking the end of year tax penalty which is much cheaper) to pump money into the system. It did not quite work out that way. I think that forecasts that assume current trends will continue are tenuous, at best.

[diamelsx]

Originally Posted by LadyLuck

I read these stories that trumpet the merits of single payer systems and one question I have is how are they planning to circumvent the shortage of doctors when they begin leaving the field? More and more doctors now are limiting or completely eliminating Medicare patients from their patient rolls already. Managed heath care companies seem to love Medicare patients as opposed to those with other insurers but doctors are not so fond of Medicare. When the article proudly claims that they will save money by not paying the doctors as much I have to wonder.

My question is this Was it the doctor's themselves or was it the insurers that the doctors work for if you will be out of the picture that was taking the Medicare people off the rolls?

Originally Posted by LadyLuck

When Obamacare was rolled out it was assumed that all young, healthy Americans were going to pony up and buy health insurance (as opposed to taking the end of year tax penalty which is much cheaper) to pump money into the system. It did not quite work out that way. I think that forecasts that assume current trends will continue are tenuous, at best.

Obamacare was was basically a right-wing plan that was made to keep private insurance paid. Single payer would be paid by taking it out of our taxes yeah taxes is going to go up but at the same time you don't have to deal with premiums which is basically a tax just not paid to the government. The savings will come in being that everybody will be negotiating prices collectively as opposed to now.

[crinolynne]

Originally Posted by LadyLuck

I have is how are they planning to circumvent the shortage of doctors when they begin leaving the field?

You mean these "doctors" are only in the profession for the money?

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by LadyLuck

I read these stories that trumpet the merits of single payer systems and one question I have is how are they planning to circumvent the shortage of doctors when they begin leaving the field? More and more doctors now are limiting or completely eliminating Medicare patients from their patient rolls already. Managed heath care companies seem to love Medicare patients as opposed to those with other insurers but doctors are not so fond of Medicare. When the article proudly claims that they will save money by not paying the doctors as much I have to wonder.

When Obamacare was rolled out it was assumed that all young, healthy Americans were going to pony up and buy health insurance (as opposed to taking the end of year tax penalty which is much cheaper) to pump money into the system. It did not quite work out that way. I think that forecasts that assume current trends will continue are tenuous, at best.

In the UK, most doctors do extremely well out of the NHS, though they often have to work extremely hard in return. For a large exodus of doctors to occur, such as the one you seem to imagine will happen, their earnings as doctors would need to fall to a low at which they can do better in another profession or job - this is usually referred to by economists as "transfer earnings", the minimum reward needed to persuade a worker to remain in their present occupation. The world is not full of highly paid salaried jobs with pensions and benefits - most doctors in the USA would come down in the world if they stopped being doctors.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by LadyLuck

I read these stories that trumpet the merits of single payer systems and one question I have is how are they planning to circumvent the shortage of doctors when they begin leaving the field? More and more doctors now are limiting or completely eliminating Medicare patients from their patient rolls already. Managed heath care companies seem to love Medicare patients as opposed to those with other insurers but doctors are not so fond of Medicare. When the article proudly claims that they will save money by not paying the doctors as much I have to wonder.

When Obamacare was rolled out it was assumed that all young, healthy Americans were going to pony up and buy health insurance (as opposed to taking the end of year tax penalty which is much cheaper) to pump money into the system. It did not quite work out that way. I think that forecasts that assume current trends will continue are tenuous, at best.

There are a lot of details to be worked out and a lot of rhetorical claims that pull estimates out of the ether. I did read an article recently where a surgeon went to work on a surgical bill that was well over $100k on behalf of some friends. I wish I could find it to link. He discovered that some costs were marked up 600 per cent. The hospital would not provide full information for its actual cost, so he could not arrive at the total mark up, but even the limited information he was able to get the bill down to $72,000. Insurers aren't really that concerned about the pricing, because they simply mark it up and pass it on in the form of premiums to employers. The higher the cost, the bigger the markup, and the greater profits for the insurer.

Basically, employers foot the bill in the form of increased costs of providing health insurance and employees receive lower wages due to the inflated cost of cost of the benefit.

There are a lot of savings associated with a single payer system. Start with the minimum 25% insurers mark up to cover administration (including multi-million dollar executive compensation), advertising, and returns to shareholders. We pay the highest prescription drug prices in the world thanks to Congress. Medicare is forbidden to negotiate drug prices. Somehow, drug companies are still profitable with the lower prices charged everywhere else. All indications are that there is a lot of price gouging by medical equipment and supply firms. Again, hospitals and insurers simply markup their costs and pass them on.

Given that insurers also refuse to pay doctors or pay much reduced amounts, doctors are inflating bills. Plus, hospitals charge more to insurers to recover the cost of providing mandated services to the indigent. Experience has shown that it is much cheaper to do preventative care than wait until a patient is forced to an emergency room. Just ask Kaiser Permanente. So, it is probable that doctors will not be taking a pay cut. Moreover, they will be much less stressed when they no longer have to fight insurers and Medicare tooth and nail to get their bills paid.

The big problem will be to find meaningful work for the insurance company executives who suddenly find themselves without their multi-million dollar pay packages. Personally, I would roast them over a slow fire, but that's my inner socialist speaking.

[TheBare]

In the mean time in Canada doctors tell the gov't they already make enough money and
reject pay rise in favor of funding health service
Not likely to be heard of in the U.S.eh??

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

The big problem will be to find meaningful work for the insurance company executives who suddenly find themselves without their multi-million dollar pay packages. Personally, I would roast them over a slow fire, but that's my inner socialist speaking.

Not so much a problem, more a beneficial effect of healthcare reform, like getting rid of a tape worm. These "executives" are parasites. They should either get actual jobs and contribute to society or go live in a cardboard box under a bridge.

[Reclaimedwg]

Typical government over reach that only happens in California and other Liberal Democrats ran cities !

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/12/63781...ming-to-an-end

What's next?

Ban folks for using their kitchen at their residence and force them to eat out every day?