Weaponry; Discussion of Rights and Responsibilities - Page 35

pandora · February 25th, 2018, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandora

I don't get that "stupid" 2nd amendment-right defense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyLuck

I agree. You don't get it. And no amount of explanation on my part this deep into this tread will change that.

What you didn't get was the irony in my statement.
To clarify it: (mis)using an outdated piece of legislation out of context to justify the sale of assault weapons to defend oneself is a kind of reasoning no person with common sense would buy.
Sadly the populism of the NRA and others keep pounding the brains of Americans so they believe that any kind of gun-law will strip them completely of their right to own a gun.
Do you really need an assault rifle to defend yourself? Do you really need a 100-clip magazine to fend off a burglar?
Do you really need that to shoot up the odd squirl in your backyard?

Some days ago I watched the statement of that idot Lapierre (NRA). He used to say that it takes a good guy with a gun to take down a bad guy with a gun.
Well that's no longer the case as we know now because according to the new facts it will take at least 6 good guys since the first 5 didn't do anything until it was all over.

**bowlinggreen** · February 25th, 2018, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoundrel

What's the smaller child holding? I can't tell.

That pic is a wee bit propagandistic, since little kids aren't actually allowed to have guns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandora

Some days ago I watched the statement of that idot Lapierre (NRA). He used to say that it takes a good guy with a gun to take down a bad guy with a gun.
Well that's no longer the case as we know now because according to the new facts it will take at least 6 good guys since the first 5 didn't do anything until it was all over.

This is a problem. That one cop ought to be charged with dereliction of duty, and sent to prison. More kids got shot because he hid and did nothing.

I fear that even if we did get these legal guns out of the hands of the idiot people who buy them for kicks, that we'd still see school shooters doing it with black market guns, and cops hiding as the massacre went on and on.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't that Norwegian guy use all illegal guns when he went on his rampage there?

**rotobott** · February 25th, 2018, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

What's the smaller child holding? I can't tell.

It's a Kinder surprise egg, which is indeed banned in the US

**SanteeFats** · February 25th, 2018, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

This is a problem. That one cop ought to be charged with dereliction of duty, and sent to prison. More kids got shot because he hid and did nothing.

I fear that even if we did get these legal guns out of the hands of the idiot people who buy them for kicks, that we'd still see school shooters doing it with black market guns, and cops hiding as the massacre went on and on.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't that Norwegian guy use all illegal guns when he went on his rampage there?

I am watching an interview with the Broward County Sheriff and his department got 23 calls about the shooter from 2013 or so on and they did NOTHING about them. An officer did go to the people who took this scumbag in house and the women told them the shooter had held a gun to peoples heads and other extreme actions. A report may have been written but it never went up the chain of command.
As to the deputy at the school he apparently did indeed just hang around talking on his walkie talkie . He has resigned while in the process of termination.

I agree with your comment about black market weapons. Where there is money and desire there will always be a way to get them.

**Wendigo** · February 25th, 2018, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

That pic is a wee bit propagandistic, since little kids aren't actually allowed to have guns.

Not allowed to own them or buy them of course but some dumbass morons do allow them to get into children's hands and plenty injuries have been caused.
Remember this dozy mare
http://www.newsweek.com/florida-gun-...-mother-435175
“Jamie Gilt for Gun Sense” wonder if she sees the irony now.

However in many other cases the result of this complete lapse of common sense is more tragic. Imagine growing up knowing you had killed one of your parents.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...s-office-says/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...y/?tid=a_mcntx

http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/28/toddle...enter-6962959/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-u...r-in-milwaukee

There are countless other similar stories, the trouble is too many gun owners have got so used to having them around 24/7 that they fail to treat them with due care and attention.

Not forgetting the tragic result of this insane series of events
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Charles_Vacca
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...d-girl-8686567

**SanteeFats** · February 25th, 2018, 05:14 PM

There a right way and a wrong way to introduce children to weapons IMO. I started my son when he was 12. I took him to a local gun range and had him instructed by a licensed teacher. Then we went shooting.

**Wendigo** · February 25th, 2018, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

There a right way and a wrong way to introduce children to weapons IMO. I started my son when he was 12. I took him to a local gun range and had him instructed by a licensed teacher. Then we went shooting.

If only that was more commonplace

I hate guns as will be perfectly clear, but if people are going to own them they must ensure they never forget they are solely designed to kill, keep your wits about you at all times. It only takes one brief lapse of concentration and you've a tragedy on your hands.

That ties into the responsibilities part of this thread title.

**Rogerbh** · February 26th, 2018, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

The 5.56mm round is not what you would call a powerful hunting cartridge, either, it is lacking in power. I know people hunt things like foxes and coyotes with it, and pest creatures like woodchucks, but as far as I know it is not legal anywhere in the USA for shooting deer or anything bigger.

Seems that ammo manufacturers have been creating hunting rounds for 5.56mm.
https://www.realtree.com/brow-tines-...s-a-deer-rifle

State hunting requirements:
Alabama- centerfire
Alaska- centerfire
Alberta- .23 and up centerfire
Arizona- centerfire
Arkansas- .22 and up centerfire
California- centerfire
Colorado- .24 and up, 70grn or larger bullet/ minimum of 1000ft/lbs at 100 yards
Connecticut- .243 and up if legal in your area
Delaware- shotgun/muzzle loader
Florida- centerfire
Georgia- .22 and up centerfire
Hawaii- Any rifle with at least 1200 ft/lbs of ME. This would start at around .223 I think
Idaho- Centerfire (cannot weigh more than 16 lbs?)
Illinois- Shotgun/ML/Pistol only
Indiana- Rifles with pistol calibers/shotgun/ML/Pistols
Iowa- .24 or larger centerfire only for antlerless season in part of the state
Kansas- .23 or larger centerfire (actually says larger than .23 so maybe .24 is the mininum).
kentucky- centerfire
Louisiana- .22 and up centerfire
Maine- .22 magnum rimfire and up!
Manitoba- Centerfire, but it says .23 and below not recommended. Does not say illegal though.
Maryland- ME of at least 1200 ft/lbs
Mass- Shotgun/ML
Michigan- centerfire in certain areas
Minnesota- .24 and up centerfire
Mississippi- No restrictions that I could find
Missouri- centerfire
Montana- No restrictions
Nebraska- Rifles with 900 ft/lbs or more at 100 yards
Nevada- .22 centerfire and up
New Hampshire- centerfire
New Jersey- shotgun only
New Mexico- centerfire
New York- centerfire
North Carolina- No restrictions
North Dakota- .22-.49 centerfire
Nova Scotia- .23 and up
Ohio- Shotgun/ML
Oklahoma- centerfire with 55 grn or heavier bullet
Ontario- centerfire
Oregon- .22 centerfire and up
Pennsylvania- centerfire
Quebec- 6mm/.243 and up
Rhode Island- shotgun/ML
Saskatchewan- .24 and up
South Carolina- centerfire
South Dakota- rifles with 1,000 ft/lbs or more ME
Tennessee- centerfire
Texas- centerfire
Utah- centerfire
vermont- No restriction
Virginia- .23 centerfire and up
Washington- .24 centerfire and up
West Virginia- .25 rimfire and up and all centerfire
Wisconsin- .22 centerfire and up
Wyoming- .23 centerfire and up

Seems like 36 states allow 5.56mm for hunting.

**bowlinggreen** · February 26th, 2018, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendigo

If only that was more commonplace

I hate guns as will be perfectly clear, but if people are going to own them they must ensure they never forget they are solely designed to kill, keep your wits about you at all times. It only takes one brief lapse of concentration and you've a tragedy on your hands.

That ties into the responsibilities part of this thread title.

I agree completely on the responsibility issue. Unfortunately we have a lot of stupid people about who are simply incapable of doing what is common sense to the rest of us. And then, tragedy must inevitably strike.

You can't cure stupid.

It would be nice if we could make all stupid people wear a big red badge that says "I am stupid", and then we'd know who not to give guns and cars and power tools to, but that is just wishful thinking and a totally impractical solution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

Seems that ammo manufacturers have been creating hunting rounds for 5.56mm.
https://www.realtree.com/brow-tines-...s-a-deer-rifle

State hunting requirements:
Alabama- centerfire
Alaska- centerfire
Alberta- .23 and up centerfire
Arizona- centerfire
Arkansas- .22 and up centerfire
California- centerfire
Colorado- .24 and up, 70grn or larger bullet/ minimum of 1000ft/lbs at 100 yards
Connecticut- .243 and up if legal in your area
Delaware- shotgun/muzzle loader
Florida- centerfire
Georgia- .22 and up centerfire
Hawaii- Any rifle with at least 1200 ft/lbs of ME. This would start at around .223 I think
Idaho- Centerfire (cannot weigh more than 16 lbs?)
Illinois- Shotgun/ML/Pistol only
Indiana- Rifles with pistol calibers/shotgun/ML/Pistols
Iowa- .24 or larger centerfire only for antlerless season in part of the state
Kansas- .23 or larger centerfire (actually says larger than .23 so maybe .24 is the mininum).
kentucky- centerfire
Louisiana- .22 and up centerfire
Maine- .22 magnum rimfire and up!
Manitoba- Centerfire, but it says .23 and below not recommended. Does not say illegal though.
Maryland- ME of at least 1200 ft/lbs
Mass- Shotgun/ML
Michigan- centerfire in certain areas
Minnesota- .24 and up centerfire
Mississippi- No restrictions that I could find
Missouri- centerfire
Montana- No restrictions
Nebraska- Rifles with 900 ft/lbs or more at 100 yards
Nevada- .22 centerfire and up
New Hampshire- centerfire
New Jersey- shotgun only
New Mexico- centerfire
New York- centerfire
North Carolina- No restrictions
North Dakota- .22-.49 centerfire
Nova Scotia- .23 and up
Ohio- Shotgun/ML
Oklahoma- centerfire with 55 grn or heavier bullet
Ontario- centerfire
Oregon- .22 centerfire and up
Pennsylvania- centerfire
Quebec- 6mm/.243 and up
Rhode Island- shotgun/ML
Saskatchewan- .24 and up
South Carolina- centerfire
South Dakota- rifles with 1,000 ft/lbs or more ME
Tennessee- centerfire
Texas- centerfire
Utah- centerfire
vermont- No restriction
Virginia- .23 centerfire and up
Washington- .24 centerfire and up
West Virginia- .25 rimfire and up and all centerfire
Wisconsin- .22 centerfire and up
Wyoming- .23 centerfire and up

Seems like 36 states allow 5.56mm for hunting.

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that. I'm not a hunter, but if I was, I don't think I'd care to take a shot at a deer with anything less than a 30 caliber cartridge with some oomph to it - like a 30-06.

Shooting an animal with a marginal caliber and letting it scamper away wounded is cruel.

pandora · February 26th, 2018, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't that Norwegian guy use all illegal guns when he went on his rampage there?

Anders Breivik used an AG3 (an automatic battle rifle and only used by their military).
Since it's a military weapon it wasn't included in the Norwegian gun-law.
The weapon itself could be bought legally in Norway at that time without much hassle. However (by law of 2003) it could only be sold without the firing pin making it in effect useless.
Incomprehensibly the firing pin (and other parts) could easily be purchased via the internet in the US.

I don't know for a fact he made his weapon operational this way so I'm not claiming it.
I also never researched the company that makes the firing pin in the US.
I do however have serious questions as to why a foreign gun-company would make and sell online to a country where they know (or should know) it's illegal.

Just to show how intricate gun-laws become and loopholes are found/created in an internationally connected world.
By far a complete ban of firearms would be the best starting point. It wouldn't rule out the black market of course but than you'd only have to concentrate on that.

February 25th, 2018, 05:14 PM	#346
SanteeFats Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Santee, Ca Posts: 60,915 Thanks: 282,079 Thanked 815,412 Times in 60,963 Posts	There a right way and a wrong way to introduce children to weapons IMO. I started my son when he was 12. I took him to a local gun range and had him instructed by a licensed teacher. Then we went shooting.