Things Noticeable this week

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

Seems more of a cheap PR stunt to me. How is it the 'public good' if it means as a result they are totally immune from UK prosecution in or extradition to the UK to account for the crimes they have committed abroad, outside UK jurisdiction. Instead you are solely reliant on other countries that can apply their laws to them.

I agree there is some element of gamesmanship going on but I bet most Brits would agree we do not want any of those evil IS shitheads allowed back into the UK. If they try to come back here handcuff the bastards and fuck them back to Syria, no excuses they nailed their colours to the mast by joining IS, let's have no appeals for clemency or any bullshit about the twats not knowing what they were doing.

[Greenman]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

What you describe is "weather" - not the same thing as "climate change" .

Indeed but those words were hers not mine and she was obviously referring to the climate change agreement that the US refused to ratify/recognise. I believe Texas was pro-Trump? Incidentally this is no way weather now, not the typical British Summers of old, three-four days of sunshine and then it pours down several times. This is getting too much for many, but it looks like we get even more NEXT week as well so August could be hot too. Still, it does wonders for tourist trade both in London and across the country as people stay here rather than go abroad for their heat fix.

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

I agree there is some element of gamesmanship going on but I bet most Brits would agree we do not want any of those evil IS shitheads allowed back into the UK. If they try to come back here handcuff the bastards and fuck them back to Syria, no excuses they nailed their colours to the mast by joining IS, let's have no appeals for clemency or any bullshit about the twats not knowing what they were doing.

As they are not legally UK citizens the UK has no jurisdiction over them till they're caught UK soil again, it maybe a bit late then. Even then if they are not UK citizens we can't even try them for crimes committed abroad, we can only extradite to those countries that do have that legal jurisdiction (Syria/Iraq/maybe USA) or possibly to the ICC in the Hague for 'war crimes'.
Most of IS terrorists would see trial in the Hague as a badge of honour and a propaganda coup.

Do you prefer to rely on our allies (like Turkey) and EU neighbours to do the policing of our borders and prosecuting for us?
All the tough talking will get you nowhere unless you have the legal power to actually do something about it. Or do we just carry out undercover assassinations on foreign soil like some other Gov'ts?

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

As they are not legally UK citizens the UK has no jurisdiction over them till they're caught UK soil again, it maybe a bit late then.

Or are you intending to rely on our allies (like Turkey) and EU neighbours to do the policing and prosecuting for us? Or do we just carry out undercover assassinations on foreign soil like some other Gov'ts.

All the tough talking will get you nowhere unless you have the legal power to actually do something about it.

As I said the recent official statement is no doubt gamesmanship, if they are not on British soil then like it or not we should leave their fates to whatever country they end up being captured in.
These two are now in Syria so we should let Syria decide what to do, we owe these scum nothing. They made their choices knowingly, if any of them do make it back here past our strict border controls then we should lock them in our most secure units until a trial can be arranged; as you say they are no longer legally UK citizens so if any country requests extradition on good grounds then we should comply.

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

As I said the recent official statement is no doubt gamesmanship, if they are not on British soil then like it or not we should leave their fates to whatever country they end up being captured in.
These two are now in Syria so we should let Syria decide what to do, we owe these scum nothing. They made their choices knowingly, if any of them do make it back here past our strict border controls then we should lock them in our most secure units until a trial can be arranged; as you say they are no longer legally UK citizens so if any country requests extradition on good grounds then we should comply.

You trust Syria
We're in a proxy war with Syria, we don't even have diplomatic relations with them let alone an extradition Treaty. Syria is also at war with the US backed Kurds that are currently holding them. To them these Kurds are just more terrorists.

[vannax]

Originally Posted by Davemetalhead

Doesn't matter. We are better than them, we are above them. If we stoop to terror tactics, torture and imprisonment without due process, we BECOME THEM.

That's not how war works.

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

To them these Kurds are just more terrorists.

Why not just quietly bribe a couple of the Kurds to shoot them while they try to escape?

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

You trust Syria
We're in a proxy war with Syria, we don't even have diplomatic relations with them let alone an extradition Treaty. Syria is also at war with the US backed Kurds that are currently holding them. To them these Kurds are just more terrorists.

Do I trust Syria, frankly not but then I do not trust ANY nation in the Middle East, these IS fanatics transcend international law though, their hatred for anything other than fanatical islam and the terror and torture they inflicted on civilians, including other Muslims puts them on a separate level to almost anyone else apart from maybe the odd drug cartel.
I do not think we should be bound by international laws with regards to IS terrorists, if the UN decided to set up an international court like they did over Bosnia then that would be different.

If they are currently in Kurdish hands then I would not be concerned if the Kurds wanted to mete out their own justice considering their history with IS, if the Kurds choose to hand them over to the US that is fine too. If they were to die tomorrow that would be even better.

[vannax]

Israel just "rescued" 800 White Helmet Jihadists from Syria, shipped them to Jordan and now 250 are coming to Canada, the rest to be divided among the UK and Germany.

The White Helmets are highly trained Islamic fighters.

[Wendigo]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-syria-advance

The UK is willing to offer asylum to some of the 500 members or relatives of the Syrian volunteer civil defence forces known as the White Helmets who have been rescued from Syria and evacuated to Jordan, the Guardian has learned.


They sound more like a Syrian Dad's Army not highly trained Islamic fighters but the truth is even simpler.

Justifying the operation, Hunt and Mordaunt said: “The White Helmets have saved over 115,000 lives during the Syrian conflict, at great risk to their own. Many White Helmets volunteers have also been killed while doing their work – trying to rescue civilians trapped in bombarded buildings or providing first aid to injured civilians. White Helmets have been the target of attacks and, due to their high profile, we judged that, in these particular circumstances, the volunteers required immediate protection. We therefore took steps with the aim of affording that protection to as many of the volunteers and their families as possible.


If it is true it would be nice to see the UK voluntarily let in some really deserving cases for a change like these volunteers and their families.