Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

We like what we are used to, Okoto. But if there should be another Scotland referendum we English might want to be enfranchised too. An independent Scotland governed by the SNP might leave the Union in protest at an EU exit decision, only to find that the EU doesn't open its arms and wallet. One should remember that Britain is fifth biggest contributor. Scotland would be back of the pack; but would have a lot of spending. Other EU countries might not want to see her at the table.

You're not wrong - which is why I voted NO - plus I LIKE being British - how do foreigners cope with not having that sense of superiority that comes from being born in this Sceptred Isle

[tamsmith]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

The vast majority of Scots don't want another independence referendum and Mrs Krankie knows it - the outcome is likely to be the same as the last one and she knows that too.

No I think we lazy Jocks will be around for a while yet , spending that lovely English taxpayers money.

Plus, according to Gordon Wilson, previous SNP leader, 36% of SNP voters do not wish to be in the EU either.

[scoundrel]

When the moment of truth arrives I will cast my vote they way I think right for the country as a whole (inc Scotland) and for the long term, not for just now. I am not yet sure, but I suspect that I will vote to remain. The arguments for leaving seem to be negative and iconoclastic, and based on supposition. If we are not controlling our own borders, this is our fault; we did, after all, opt out of the Schengen agreement precisiely so we could control our borders. If we allow EU citizens freedom to come here and work, this does not mean we are not allowed to keep track on who comes and goes; after all, French and Belgian nationals can be terrorists too, as can British nationals. We have chosen not to keep on top of the movements of people and that's down to us.

As a result, it is impossible to cite reliable statistics. It is well known though that the movement of labour is two way traffic and that plenty of Britons live and work in the EU, especially in Ireland, France and Spain. I am slightly suspicious of the bias in arguments when discussing the movement of workers.

[chris chunt]

Just heard on the BBC news the prime minister of Greece describe his country with regards to the refugee crisis as a nation of lost souls .
Then the BBC showed some refugee children and called it a nation of little souls .

Well they'll soon be are souls when they're given European papers and head en masse to the UK .
Let's hope weve left Europe before then .

[gordian_knot]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

When the moment of truth arrives I will cast my vote they way I think right for the country as a whole (inc Scotland) and for the long term, not for just now. I am not yet sure, but I suspect that I will vote to remain. The arguments for leaving seem to be negative and iconoclastic, and based on supposition. If we are not controlling our own borders, this is our fault; we did, after all, opt out of the Schengen agreement precisiely so we could control our borders. If we allow EU citizens freedom to come here and work, this does not mean we are not allowed to keep track on who comes and goes; after all, French and Belgian nationals can be terrorists too, as can British nationals. We have chosen not to keep on top of the movements of people and that's down to us.

As a result, it is impossible to cite reliable statistics. It is well known though that the movement of labour is two way traffic and that plenty of Britons live and work in the EU, especially in Ireland, France and Spain. I am slightly suspicious of the bias in arguments when discussing the movement of workers.

The wish to preserve hundreds of years of our own traditions, laws and beliefs is surely the very opposite of iconoclastic. And how can we control our own borders if we cannot prevent a single EU citizen from entering, or deport any foreign criminal to anywhere in the world due to EU legislation? That's our fault only for signing up to it in the first place - but of course the people at least had no clue what we were signing up to.

Of course it's all supposition. We don't know what exactly what will happen if we leave - though I doubt it will be nearly as traumatic as some would have us believe. But there are just as many unknowns to staying in, the arguments for which are based almost entirely on fear.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by gordian_knot

The wish to preserve hundreds of years of our own traditions, laws and beliefs is surely the very opposite of iconoclastic. And how can we control our own borders if we cannot prevent a single EU citizen from entering, or deport any foreign criminal to anywhere in the world due to EU legislation? That's our fault only for signing up to it in the first place - but of course the people at least had no clue what we were signing up to.

Of course it's all supposition. We don't know what exactly what will happen if we leave - though I doubt it will be nearly as traumatic as some would have us believe. But there are just as many unknowns to staying in, the arguments for which are based almost entirely on fear.

Firstly, we could have passport controls at the points of entry. They do usually at least look at travel documents at the airports, but the last time I saw a passport official in the UK examining the people getting off a ferry and looking at their documents was in 1977. We might as well have signed up for Schengen. Whenever I have used the Channel ferries it has always been the French and Belgian authorities who have taken a good look at me.

Then we could require EU nationals to register for tax here in the UK if they elect to work here. In this way they would be visible to HMG; who they are and what their address is.

As for deporting undesireables, we don't do this nearly enough and if we were properly led by British national politicians (so convenient to blame the EU for our own shortcomings isn't it?) there are various strategies we might legally adopt to facilitate the getting rid of exotic pondlife imported from other places. I see no reason why we cannot amend the Human Rights Act to state explicitly that there is no human right to commit crimes in other places and claim asylum when actually you are a fugitive from justice. The Human Rights Act is nothing to do with the EU. It is to do with the Council of Europe and with the European Convention on Human Rights. There is plenty we could be doing now exactly as the arrangements now are; but we prefer to blame Europe for everything.

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Whenever I have used the Channel ferries it has always been the French and Belgian authorities who have taken a good look at me.

Full body cavity search??

I got felt up most intimately by a Dutchwoman in Schiphol Airport after she confiscated my bottle of Japanese whisky.

[thunderfly]

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by tamsmith

Plus, according to Gordon Wilson, previous SNP leader, 36% of SNP voters do not wish to be in the EU either.

Logical really why should someone who votes for what is a nationalist pro independence party want freedom from the UK where they have a very loud voice but be willing to accept being a member of a bloated EU where they would be on a par with the likes of Denmark, Finland & Slovakia.

[TCrout]

I'll vote to stay in, but despite not being particularly enamoured with Cameron's lot I think getting Brussels to think about reform by the threat of a big player pulling out would be a good thing. It's still too based on the Western European CAP make as much food as possible idea.. That's 60 year old thinking.

However being a little island floating off the side constantly saying, "look at us, look at us" is NOT a great place on the world stage