Tanks!! - Page 11

**Ennath** · May 12th, 2012, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palo5

Don't allow your sons to serve in tanks. Tell them to serve in signals or intelligence or something else. They'll be better paid and less frustrated

Sounds like an updating of the ancient Lament of the Egyptian Infantryman. "Be a signalman, that you may save yourself from being a tanker."

**haroldeye** · May 12th, 2012, 12:21 PM

Palo riding a tank is much more fun.

**palo5** · May 12th, 2012, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haroldeye

Palo riding a tank is much more fun.

It's only fun on flat ground, harold

Otherwise it is like being driven by Satan, even if you have good suspension

If you have never wanted to execute a tank driver, you have not experienced real anger

Dr Cro · May 12th, 2012, 07:58 PM

re the firefly
the British offered the Americans Fireflys (also vehicle from the Royal Engineers, the funnies) but the offer was refused as not needed. In Normandy once the performance was known, American forces on the ground would have paid the contents of Fort Knox for the use of a Firefly. Until the M36 Jackson appeared the best American gun carriers were the M10 Wolverine and M18 Hellcat which carried a 3inch (76mm) AA gun.
Other Brittish AFV's to use the 17lb'er were the Achilles( a regunned M10) and the Archer

**haroldeye** · May 12th, 2012, 09:35 PM

Palo5

Ride a Chally my friend.

Almost made me want to be a tankie!

deefer · May 12th, 2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Cro

re the firefly
the British offered the Americans Fireflys (also vehicle from the Royal Engineers, the funnies) but the offer was refused as not needed. In Normandy once the performance was known, American forces on the ground would have paid the contents of Fort Knox for the use of a Firefly. Until the M36 Jackson appeared the best American gun carriers were the M10 Wolverine and M18 Hellcat which carried a 3inch (76mm) AA gun.
Other Brittish AFV's to use the 17lb'er were the Achilles( a regunned M10) and the Archer

alas too true...
the villain of the peace was a General called McNair who was a former artillery man obsessed with the tank killer principle. He wasn't interested in the mobility of the firefly but would rather suffer the m10's and m18's until the m36's started to arrive in late '44 instead. This lack of fore-site must have cost lives.

mjm1963 · May 13th, 2012, 12:01 AM

Unfortunately, the other villain in this story is General Patton. Patton didn't want the swap over from the the standard 75mm Sherman over to the the better performing M4A3 76mm. He argued that it would impede his Army advance and they weren't needed on account of expected lack of German armoured resistance. He even initially banned the up-armouring of Shermans when crews started mounting Sandbags etc.

mjm1963 · May 13th, 2012, 12:13 AM

Up-armoured Shermans 1944/45

A pity it needed to be done

deefer · May 13th, 2012, 01:03 AM

Ironically the best tank for the next 50 years in the form of the Centurion was just around the corner, powerful, well armed and well armored and with a service life of 60 plus years counting Israeli service. If we'd had them during 1943 the war would have ended 2 years early. As it was it survived 40 years of Russian tank development and the Americans only caught up with the Abrams. Us Brits learn quick when we have to, and it's progeny still show everyone else how its done...

this old girl may be on the show circuit but it will still scare the willy's out of a T55 or anything else that displeases it....

**knobby109** · May 13th, 2012, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deefer

Ironically the best tank for the next 50 years in the form of the Centurion was just around the corner, powerful, well armed and well armored and with a service life of 60 plus years counting Israeli service. If we'd had them during 1943 the war would have ended 2 years early. As it was it survived 40 years of Russian tank development and the Americans only caught up with the Abrams. Us Brits learn quick when we have to, and it's progeny still show everyone else how its done...

this old girl may be on the show circuit but it will still scare the willy's out of a T55 or anything else that displeases it....

The Centurion was actually in production at the end of the war.
And the Abrams was totally outclassed by the Challenger.And don't forget the Chobham armour.

May 12th, 2012, 12:21 PM	#102
haroldeye Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Halfwitistan Posts: 5,716 Thanks: 113,534 Thanked 59,970 Times in 5,708 Posts	Palo riding a tank is much more fun.

May 12th, 2012, 07:58 PM	#104
Dr Cro Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Good question Posts: 81 Thanks: 23 Thanked 930 Times in 75 Posts	re the firefly the British offered the Americans Fireflys (also vehicle from the Royal Engineers, the funnies) but the offer was refused as not needed. In Normandy once the performance was known, American forces on the ground would have paid the contents of Fort Knox for the use of a Firefly. Until the M36 Jackson appeared the best American gun carriers were the M10 Wolverine and M18 Hellcat which carried a 3inch (76mm) AA gun. Other Brittish AFV's to use the 17lb'er were the Achilles( a regunned M10) and the Archer

May 12th, 2012, 09:35 PM	#105
haroldeye Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Halfwitistan Posts: 5,716 Thanks: 113,534 Thanked 59,970 Times in 5,708 Posts	Palo5 Ride a Chally my friend. Almost made me want to be a tankie!

May 13th, 2012, 12:01 AM	#107
mjm1963 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: UK Posts: 346 Thanks: 5,131 Thanked 7,169 Times in 337 Posts	Unfortunately, the other villain in this story is General Patton. Patton didn't want the swap over from the the standard 75mm Sherman over to the the better performing M4A3 76mm. He argued that it would impede his Army advance and they weren't needed on account of expected lack of German armoured resistance. He even initially banned the up-armouring of Shermans when crews started mounting Sandbags etc.

May 13th, 2012, 12:13 AM	#108
mjm1963 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: UK Posts: 346 Thanks: 5,131 Thanked 7,169 Times in 337 Posts	Up-armoured Shermans 1944/45 A pity it needed to be done

May 13th, 2012, 01:03 AM	#109
deefer Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 146 Thanks: 552 Thanked 2,323 Times in 134 Posts	Ironically the best tank for the next 50 years in the form of the Centurion was just around the corner, powerful, well armed and well armored and with a service life of 60 plus years counting Israeli service. If we'd had them during 1943 the war would have ended 2 years early. As it was it survived 40 years of Russian tank development and the Americans only caught up with the Abrams. Us Brits learn quick when we have to, and it's progeny still show everyone else how its done... this old girl may be on the show circuit but it will still scare the willy's out of a T55 or anything else that displeases it....