The Comic Books Thread

[tsunamiSD]

but when onehourplus posted the original of the below altered cover in the 'comic book covers' thread, that prompted me to do so.

I'm including the entire text of the blog article, but not all of the images shown - those are of characters like Power Girl, the Jim Balent Catwoman, and several others, all proving the same point about the sexualization of the female characters in comic books. Do the comic book stores that you go to have that few titles for girls?



"What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me" by 'Dave' (2015 Dec 22)

I like to think that I’m a pretty decent human being.
Don’t think I didn’t hear that snort of derision…lighten up – I didn’t say “perfect”, I just said “pretty decent”.
I think I’m fairly socially conscious. I’m morally aware of what’s going on in the world around me. I help those who need assistance. My social circle’s about as diverse as you can possibly get without being a caricature from a children’s story about tolerance and acceptance.
And yet, to all of the women that I know, especially those in the tech scene, I kinda feel like I owe you an apology…because it wasn’t until I took my seven year old daughter to a comic book store this weekend that the universe slapped me upside the head and brought a really serious issue into focus for me…
I never understood it before.
I mean, I thought I understood it before.
But I really didn’t understand it before.
See, I’ve talked with plenty of people and kept up on the news. I have friends who are women in the technology field. We’ve had plenty of female guests on our show. I know some incredibly successful women in their chosen careers. But as it turns out, even though I thought I had a grasp on how crappy women can have it in the geek world, it turns out that, at best, I had a superficial understanding.
And that’s really hard for me to wrap my head around, because I hate not understanding things.
But not as much as I hate the reaction my daughter had to looking through a comic book store.
She’s seven. She may talk like she’s twenty-seven at times, but…she’s seven. She has her whole life ahead of her. An endless world of possibilities. She can be anything she wants to be…
…or is everything that I believe, and that I’ve been telling her, just so much crap and utter nonsense because that’s not really how things work?
The trip was completely their idea, believe it or not. They had seen a commercial for Big Bang Theory with the cast in a comic book store, asked about the concept, and demanded that I take them to one. So I did, and when we first got to the store, both kids (my son’s five) were in awe. I had to keep them from running around the place and picking everything up. I had to keep reminding them to stay by me, and to please walk and use their manners. The action figures, the collectible models…the very newness of it all…had them completely overwhelmed. As they found their way to the racks, they lost their minds. There were hundreds and hundreds of comics staring them in the face, and they wanted them all. I agreed that I’d buy them a few (have to encourage the next generation after all, right? Right.) and so go ahead and take a look around…but look, don’t touch, and behave.
And that’s when things started to go sideways.
My son had no problems whatsoever. Superman. Batman. Wolverine. The Flash. The other Batman. That third Batman. Still yet another Batman. Holy hell, why are there like nineteen different Batman comic series all out at once these days? And wait…it’s not just Batman…there’s five different Superman series, three Wolverine comics, and…
“Breathe,” I had to tell him. “No, we’re not buying all of them…but pick out, oh, three each that you want and we’ll get those.”
He was set. He went to staring at the covers of the different books and figuring out which ones he wanted.
My daughter had an extremely puzzled look on her face.
“What’s up, kiddo?” I asked.
“Dad…where are the real comics?”
“These are the comics, honey. What do you mean ‘real’ ones? What are you looking for?”
“Dad,” she said as she rolled her eyes at me (I mentioned that she acts like she’s twenty seven sometimes, yes? I could tell this was about to be one of those times) and said “these can’t be the real comics. That’s not Harley Quinn. That’s not Wonder Woman. That’s not…where are the real ones?”
I had no clue what she was talking about.
“Hon…these are the real comics. What do you mean?”
“All their…” …and her voice dropped to a whisper… “boobies are hanging out, Dad. These can’t be for kids, and comic books are for kids, and kids aren’t supposed to see that. That Wonder Woman looks like she’s in a video, and I don’t know who that is, but it’s not Harley Quinn. Harley Quinn wears clothes.”
And just like that…I got it. Something clicked. Something that had never really clicked with me before, but through her eyes, I got it – where were the superheros for girls that weren’t quite so overdeveloped and under-dressed? When the guy behind the counter was asked, he smiled at me knowingly, and said “Your daughter’s…seven?” I said yes. “Same here,” he continued. “I always bring her home these.”
Hello Kitty and Monster High.
That’s what the man who runs a comic book store with a seven year old daughter had to offer…Hello Kitty…and Monster High. Literally thousands of comics lining the shelves…and Hello Kitty…and Monster High.
Then, as I started having a conversation with my daughter about the whole thing, I realized I was in a no-win situation…even if her eyes did light up a bit at the Monster High comic.
I can’t be casually dismissive of the whole thing, because then I’m basically saying that if a woman’s attractive, then she clearly can’t be a superhero. And I know plenty of successful, attractive women…all of whom would kick my ass if it got out that that’s what I was teaching my daughter.
I can’t wholly endorse the entire concept, because no, I don’t really want my daughter to be one of those daughters as she continues to grow and mature. If she starts dressing like Mystique, we’re going to have a problem, and the joke I made at her birth about locking her in her room until menopause will no longer be a joke.
And then there’s the fact that she’s seven. Seven. I’m not really ready to sit down and have the talk with her about how it’s okay to be sexy, but that you shouldn’t let it completely define who you are. Because, again, she’s seven. She doesn’t need to know what “sexy” is. She doesn’t have the emotional capacity yet to grasp the differences between inner and outer personas. It’s not within her realm of understanding yet to get why teenage boys (and, yes, some older ones too) are drawn to those covers with women drawn like sine waves with heavy curves, tiny waists, and doll-like faces.
I tried to handle it as best as I could, though. I explained that those were indeed the real comics, but that some of them were just comics drawn for boys and girls who are a little bit older than she is, just like there were some I was steering her brother away from, and just like there are shows on TV that she likes and watches but there are other shows that are for older kids or adults. That it’s okay that she doesn’t really like those comics. That we’ll absolutely find something for her that she does like.
As we finished up our shopping trip (she found some that were “I guess these are okay”) and made our way back home, I couldn’t turn my brain off about the whole thing. I just couldn’t. What I thought was going to be an enjoyable, pleasant experience turned into a crisis of conscience and a re-examination of damn near every interaction that I’ve had, every story that I’ve read, all of the anecdotal stories that I’ve been told…
I didn’t get it. Casually being dismissed in meetings. Dealing with harassment at conferences. Feeling like there was nowhere for you to go in the tech industry because nobody would ever take you or your ideas seriously and you were tired of fighting.
I get it – I didn’t get it.
And I certainly didn’t take it seriously enough.
But I get it now…well, no, I won’t be That Guy who says he gets something he can never really truly understand fully…but I can say I at least get it more than I did before this weekend.
My daughter’s also too young to really understand why I thanked her for the conversation she had with me, and why I was so thoughtful and pensive every time I looked at her for the rest of the weekend. She kept asking me if something was wrong, and I kept saying “Oh no honey…daddy’s just thinking about stuff”, and she’s used to that happening so she accepted it…
Still haven’t been able to turn my brain off, though.

- note - there is a follow on post by the author entitled 'Lessons Learned.'

[movieman88]

TsunamiSD respectfully I'm calling bullshit.

Marvel has almost no notable sexualized female characters left, only Emma Frost, Satana, Lady Hellbender & Miss Sinister consistently stay blatently sexy.

Except Earth One, Wonder Woman hasn't had a notably sexual cover since before 2011. (I go through the cover solicitations every month to save artwork, I would know)

Power Girl had a boobwindowless outfit at the start of the new 52, it briefly got brought back but then the Superman S got slapped atop it, and now she has been replaced by a flat chested teenage black girl.


New 52 Catwoman stopped being sexualized in her own book after the 2nd artist Rafa Sandoval left her book.

Starfire was the source of some major bullshit controversy at the start of the new 52 but had people bothered to actually read the book they complained about, they would see their problems didn't last past the first arc or even really the first issue. She later got her own series and was made to look all cute and like the cartoon version.
Here is a break down of her outfits...


Carol Danvers, Angela, Valkyrie, She Hulk, Elektra, Storm, Power Girl, Starfire, Poison Ivy, Gamora, Scarlet Witch, Black Cat ALL have been covered up in recent years.

We are at a point we're this fucking cover was enough to cause a controversy with the book's writer bullying the artist into ceasing making variant covers for the title. Does this look fucking sexual to anyone here? People were calling it a panty shot, it's the exact same bottoms she has always had, she just now has the battle skirt around them.


Feminist have won this war on comic book sex appeal, the only ones still complaining are people who don't keep up to date on what is coming out or sadist who want to keep cheesecake fans from getting even the smallest bread crumbs.

[movieman88]

Some sad news, Flash artist Francis Manapul's sister in law is missing.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BcDlaqJBytK/






Some other outfit change examples...
Scarlet Witch - 25 is current.

Psylocke - 17 is current.

Gamora - 5 is current (hate it so much)

Captain Marvel - 10 is current by most artist.

I am down with Carol's new suit but seriously, It's pissing me off how bony, masculine and unfeminine they keep drawing her when traditionally she is the definitive blonde bombshell of comics.
Example...

[tsunamiSD]

First up, a documentary just came out 3 days ago called Chris Claremont's X-Men - from what I've heard, it is pretty good. Problem - only available as video on demand?

Revisit the History of CHRIS CLAREMONT’s X-MEN in New Documentary

Trailer for Documentary


***** More from YouTube:

Why Hellboy Has The Best Comic Book Universe

I think that comicbook101 makes a lot of sense with his reasoning, Mignola overseeing everything makes Hellboy's history/continuity better than any other 'universe.'

Now - two from my favorite:



She really goes into detail in explaining why she thinks that this is the best MCU movie yet, including giving big props to the designers for letting Jack Kirby's art influence them. The Last Thor Ragnarok Movie Review

And for those who took up my suggestion to follow her 'Dune Club' series... She now has a new one:



Watchmen Club Orientation | Session #0

Be warned, that session is 1hr43min long...

...

[Devius]

I don't know if the following is true, but I thought this was the appropriate thread to post it...

The comic book industry is presently said to be in a state of collapse, and following the recent news of troubles within DC Comics, now it is being speculated Disney may actually be considering shutting down Marvel Comics.

Speculation about problems within Marvel Comics comes from a press release issued by the company where Marvel Comics Chief Creative Officer Joe Quesada and Editor-In-Chief C.B. Cebulski are attending the upcoming SXSW where the pair will be hosting a panel and putting it forth how Marvel Comics is responsible for the success in other markets, such as film, TV, video games and merchandise.

"Titled 'Marvel: From Comics To Screens,' the hour-long panel will look at how some of Marvel’s most iconic characters and storylines have contributed to the games, movies, and television series that are so renowned among popular culture. Everything starts with an idea – and Marvel Comics is the spark that lights the fire!" the press release states in part.

Bleeding Cool actually puts it forth the reason Quesada and Cebulski are doing the panel is, in essence, to save Marvel Comics, as sales have been dwindling for years and they need to convince Disney that publishing Marvel comic books - even though they are losing money - is still a good idea because it is the inspiration for markets that do make money, such as Kevin Feige's insanely popular MCU.

Source:
https://cosmicbook.news/disney-shutt...-marvel-comics

[movieman88]

Happy New Year guys!

What comics are you currently reading and have recently read?

I have sadly fallen off comics for most of 2019, I will try and catch up on Thor soon, among others.

[movieman88]

Covid comic casualties are starting to arrive.

Marvel canceled 22 tie in issues to their event Empyre including Thor, Squadron Supreme & Union mini series all of which I was far far more excited for than the main event itself. The Thor mini would see the return of artist Pasqual Ferry who previously did solid Thor work on Fraction's run.



After 30 years, Dark Horse is loosing the comic rights to Alien & Predator to Disney/Marvel effective Jan1 2021 resulting in DH not having time to publish their mini series adaptations of the original screenplays for Alien (79) and Predator (1987), Andi Owens, 1 of the artist for the Predator mini confirmed it's canceled despite 3 issues already being fucking done. They previously released a series for Alien 3 (the cold war script not the wood planet one)


https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2020/02/19...-comic-series/
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2020/01/16...al-screenplay/

So yeah I am fairly pissed at all that.

[movieman88]

Shit is going down at WB/DC.

As we reported earlier, layoffs were announced throughout Warner Bros. today, with as many as 600 people getting laid off.

While I don’t have all the names of DC staffers who were let go confirmed, two people have separately told me it was “a bloodbath.”

Reports are that a large number of senior staffers were let go, including many senior editorial, marketing and administrative personnel.

Among those we’ve heard are gone: Editor in Chief Bob Harras, SVP Publishing Strategy and Support Services Hank Kanalz, VP Bobbie Chase, and editors Brian Cunningham, Mark Doyle and Andy Khouri. The latter two were key to the Black Label initiative that seemed to be making money, so a bit of a shock.

In addition, VP of Marketing & Creative Services Jonah Weiland has been laid off

Jim Lee has stated they will be cutting down their comic output to just 25%.
Aquaman is confirmed canceled.

[darkdalek]

Originally Posted by movieman88

Covid comic casualties are starting to arrive.

...
After 30 years, Dark Horse is loosing the comic rights to Alien & Predator to Disney/Marvel effective Jan1 2021 resulting in DH not having time to publish their mini series adaptations of the original screenplays for Alien (79) and Predator (1987), Andi Owens, 1 of the artist for the Predator mini confirmed it's canceled despite 3 issues already being fucking done. They previously released a series for Alien 3 (the cold war script not the wood planet one)



So yeah I am fairly pissed at all that.

So they won't release all of it? Even the full hardcover collection for Alien: The Original Screenplay?


I was really looking forward to it.

[movieman88]

Finally back to reading comics with moderate consistency.

Finished!
William Gibson's Alien 3 comic adaptation by Dark Horse.
- Surprisingly decent story (I recognize I am in the minority here)
- Only serious complaint was them not using Ripley in virtually anyway (not sure if this was at the stage where the producers inexplicably wanted to push Hicks as the lead or if this was the stage where they simply didn't expect Weaver to come back for monetary reasons), thankfully they did not kill her off like one of the other alternate scripts did.
- The Alien propagating like a airborne virus didn't bother me as much as I expected as it was a one off mutation.
Batman - Last Knight on Earth
- Good quick post apocalyptic Batman story.
A Red Mass for Mars
- Decent.
- First time I agreed with Jonathan Hickman's reputation for writing sterile emotionless characters. Didn't get that from his fantastic Avengers runs at all.
Three Jokers (2020)
- Great.
- Heavy focus on Barbara & Jason.
- Fabok's art is fantastic. Only weakness is not making the Comedian & The Clown look different enough from each other. The Criminal is the only one who stands out.

Currently Reading!
Detective Comics (2011 - new 52)
- I have read up to issue #17. Don't get the hate. Of course it's not as good as Scott Snyder's Court of Owls but it's still solid.
- Dr Toxic was a interesting unique villain.
The Eternals (1976)
- First issue held my attention more than expected, gonna try and make my way through all the various Eternals series before the movie comes out.
Plunge by the son of Stephen King.
- Very happy Stuart Immonen isn't retired as I heard.
- 1st issue was solid. Characters fleshed out well enough.
Thor (2018)
- Behind on Thor for the first time since I started reading him around 2009.
- Del Mundo's art is not fitting the book nearly as well as expected.

Originally Posted by darkdalek

So they won't release all of it? Even the full hardcover collection for Alien: The Original Screenplay?

I was really looking forward to it.

The Alien screenplay one appears to be coming out after all. The Predator series is fully canceled.