The NFL and NBA thread

[qwerty007]

Originally Posted by grossnex

With a mouth like that Qwerty, you would have no problem surviving NYC .
But, you better be careful my brother. I hear tabler keeps flying steel balls with spikes in his back pocket .

That's OK - I hide behind the couch!!!

[keefriff]

Originally Posted by grossnex

I'll have to take you at your word on Fewell. I don't know much about him. Good to know you like the G-Men my brother. We've had some big games back & forth between our teams in the last 10 years. I would've understood if there was some lingering resentment, but you've probably got you hate hands full with Chicago & Green Bay. How did it feel getting Favre? Was it weird for you after all those years hoping he would fail? I'm trying to think of what it would be like if I had Tony Romo running my offense...OK, now I'm not anymore. And I never will again .

LOL. Yeah get those thoughts of Tony Romeo out of your mind quickly. I think Eli will do just fine Yes, my Vikes and your G-Men have some history together. We have kind of owned you in the regular season the last few years but you guys put the ultimate beatdown on us in that 41-0 NFC Championship game back in 2000. That was a disgrace.

As far as Favre goes, boy I tell you, it was tough! When I first heard it, I was completely against it. I couldn't imagine it! Then when I thought about, I was for it because I knew he was going to make the team better. I had no faith in other QB's and I thought he could give us 8-10 games and we would make the playoffs. I never expected what ensued. He played out of his frickin' head and the whole team responded to his leadership. Now don't get me wrong, the guy has a huge ego and this waffling about playing crap bugs me, but he showed that he can still play and is tough as nails. By the time he won that game against SF in week 4, I was drinking the Favre Kool-Aid and continued to for the rest of the year. He's coming back this year. I am almost positive but I don't think they can duplicate what they did last year.

[qwerty007]

Originally Posted by keefriff

Professional sports to me is an entertainment business. It always has been. Since the begining people were charged at the gate, baseball cards had tobacco advertising on them, ball parks quickly had advertising in them. It was a business that was undertook by the owners to earn profits. As time has passed, lots of teams have become civic institutions and people have deep affinity for them. Just ask Baltimore Colts fans. But still at their deepest core they are businesses. Just ask Baltimore Colts fans. It doesn't make it right but for me that is the essence of it. Fans, short for fanatics, have made the importance of sports so great and I think their passion at times is blinding. Myself included. We all want our teams to win for all the reasons you stated, but if I'm a 25 year old kid from Dallas playing for the Eagles after being released from three other teams, I don't know if I feel the same passion. He will play hard because he wants to keep his job. He will play hard because he wants to win. He will play hard for his teammates. He will play hard for his coaches. He will play hard for his own pride. I don't think he plays hard to make Eagles fans proud of him or for his deep love of Philly. To him it is certainly a business and I understand that.

And therein lies the difference;

if I want to be entertained I head to the movies, go see a Cirque De Soleil show, a concert or download porno movies off of rapidshare (but that's a 'different' kind of entertainment )

Take b-ball, for a sec; sure, it's nice to see a player go up and slam over someone. But it's still only 2 points and if the team loses the game...so what. We've still lost. How about the guy who averages 25 points a game, but shoots 25% from the field?

Bottom line for me is - it is not about being entertained. It's about winning.

As for your example of the player who is released 3 times; if he plays so hard and is a great teammate, why is he released so often? I know it's a hypothetical situation, but players (in any sport) who:

He will play hard because he wants to keep his job. He will play hard because he wants to win. He will play hard for his teammates. He will play hard for his coaches. He will play hard for his own pride

Call me idealistic...but this sounds like a character guy - not someone who gets released a bunch of times?? This sounds like a Mike Singletary type quality player - one who you build a franchise around and one whom many teams aspire to have.

On the Vikings - I think AP is one of those guys (would LOVE to seem him in black and gold - we'd fix his fumblitis!), Sidney Rice is one of those guys, probably Lito Sheppard...guys like that you lock up with a long term deal.

I think that the very guys who are in it for the money, are the ones who don't play hard, who don't play for the team, the fans and their teammates. THOSE are the guys who get moved around, who run at the first sight of free agency and who don't get locked into long term deals before their contracts are up.

YES - I will grant you this; as players get on in their careers (LT is a good example) teams will move them out. It is very draconian, but the NFL is all about survival of the fittest. As a GM you gotta do what's best for the team - because the team must improve, no?

This leads us nicely into another subject;

Are players like LT hanging on too long?

[grossnex]

Originally Posted by keefriff

LOL. Yeah get those thoughts of Tony Romeo out of your mind quickly. I think Eli will do just fine Yes, my Vikes and your G-Men have some history together. We have kind of owned you in the regular season the last few years but you guys put the ultimate beatdown on us in that 41-0 NFC Championship game back in 2000. That was a disgrace.

As far as Favre goes, boy I tell you, it was tough! When I first heard it, I was completely against it. I couldn't imagine it! Then when I thought about, I was for it because I knew he was going to make the team better. I had no faith in other QB's and I thought he could give us 8-10 games and we would make the playoffs. I never expected what ensued. He played out of his frickin' head and the whole team responded to his leadership. Now don't get me wrong, the guy has a huge ego and this waffling about playing crap bugs me, but he showed that he can still play and is tough as nails. By the time he won that game against SF in week 4, I was drinking the Favre Kool-Aid and continued to for the rest of the year. He's coming back this year. I am almost positive but I don't think they can duplicate what they did last year.

I knowwwwww!!! What can you do? Eli has a day long brain fart every time he see's the purple line up against him. You guys have like 100 INTs in the last 5 games against us. We've been personally responsible for any of your defensive backs making the Pro Bowl .

But you're selling your guys a little short in my estimation. The Vikes didn't surprise me at all last year. The second you guys got Favre, I had you in the Superbowl. I figured Favre wouldn't need to pass the ball more than 20 times in the games on average. He never had the caliber of ball carrier that is Adrian Peterson & I thought that was the missing piece of the pie for years when he was in GB. Combine that with the talent of your receiving core, & I thought the Offensive Line just needed to keep Favre standing because he still has a cannon for an arm. What sold me on you guys over the Saints, was the fact that the Vikes actually play defense. They're not just hoping they can get some turnovers like the Saints. They get their share of 3 & outs. I thought that would be the edge. I still feel the exact same way this year.

But now that I'm done kissing Purple Asses, We're gonna finally kick your guys asses when we see you this year!

[keefriff]

Originally Posted by grossnex

I knowwwwww!!! What can you do? Eli has a day long brain fart every time he see's the purple line up against him. You guys have like 100 INTs in the last 5 games against us. We've been personally responsible for any of your defensive backs making the Pro Bowl .

But you're selling your guys a little short in my estimation. The Vikes didn't surprise me at all last year. The second you guys got Favre, I had you in the Superbowl. I figured Favre wouldn't need to pass the ball more than 20 times in the games on average. He never had the caliber of ball carrier that is Adrian Peterson & I thought that was the missing piece of the pie for years when he was in GB. Combine that with the talent of your receiving core, & I thought the Offensive Line just needed to keep Favre standing because he still has a cannon for an arm. What sold me on you guys over the Saints, was the fact that the Vikes actually play defense. They're not just hoping they can get some turnovers like the Saints. They get their share of 3 & outs. I thought that would be the edge. I still feel the exact same way this year.

But now that I'm done kissing Purple Asses, We're gonna finally kick your guys asses when we see you this year!

We play you guys week 14 in MN. Let the sh*t talk begin.

[qwerty007]

I would like to propose, that in the spirit of the conversation we had that started all of this off, one of us picks a subject. It can be about our teams or other teams - and we lay out our POV's.

Pro's, con's, good and bad, have at it. We could even do it on a daily basis and rotate the person who chooses the subject.

As one never to shy away from conflict, if it is OK with you guys, I would like to start the proceedings and I will look into the mirror.

The Team: Pittsburgh Steelers

The Player: Ben Roethlisberger

The Deal: Suspension fair or foul?

Have at it...and I'll throw in my 2 cents...

BTW: Keefriff - can we start to call you RAGNAR??

Omigod...did he know???? Was he part of the recruitment team???





(much respect - he's truly a GREAT mascot )

[grossnex]

Originally Posted by qwerty007

YES - I will grant you this; as players get on in their careers (LT is a good example) teams will move them out. It is very draconian, but the NFL is all about survival of the fittest. As a GM you gotta do what's best for the team - because the team must improve, no?

This leads us nicely into another subject;

Are players like LT hanging on too long?

Oh Qwerty my brother.... You just knew I was going to have an opinion on anything that has to do with LT. Watching his entire career as a kid was an absolute honor. This was a man who changed the way the linebacker position was played! Coaches had to try to invent new defensive schemes to stop him. I could debate with you whether the QB sack statistic was created because of LT. Do you think I like the guy a little bit?

But nothing can take away the images of LT hobbling around the field after he tore his Achilles tendon. The last 2 or 3 years he was just hanging on for the money. I think he would even tell you that. He was not a well man then.

I want to share a story with you guys about LT. Now, you have to understand he was a childhood God to me. Anyway, I had a friend who worked traffic security in the Meadowlands back in the teenage days. I've done plenty of partying in those parking lots in my younger day. One such night a few of us were hanging out by the practice field right next to the Stadium & we're feeling nice!!!:cool :

Out of nowhere this black cadillac pulls up on the other end of the practice field & it's LT. He's about 100 yards away from us just hanging out by the front end of his car. We were like "Holy Crap!" We were just asking each other if we should go up & get an autograph, & he starts beating the crap out of the hood of his car with both hands screaming at the top of his lungs "WHY" over & over again. It's like 2AM, we're all 17 years old & there's a known drug addict acting highly unstable, so we jumped in the car & went to the parking lot by the arena to keep partying. After that, I never elevated these guys to that level of worship anymore.

That's a true story. That's probably the most interesting thing that's ever happened to me. I'm not going to tell you I met the pope next.

But, I prefer to remember LT this way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYi2gAAIL3k

[qwerty007]

Originally Posted by grossnex

Oh Qwerty my brother.... You just knew I was going to have an opinion on anything that has to do with LT. Watching his entire career as a kid was an absolute honor. This was a man who changed the way the linebacker position was played! Coaches had to try to invent new defensive schemes to stop him. I could debate with you whether the QB sack statistic was created because of LT. Do you think I like the guy a little bit?

But nothing can take away the images of LT hobbling around the field after he tore his Achilles tendon. The last 2 or 3 years he was just hanging on for the money. I think he would even tell you that. He was not a well man then.

I want to share a story with you guys about LT. Now, you have to understand he was a childhood God to me. Anyway, I had a friend who worked traffic security in the Meadowlands back in the teenage days. I've done plenty of partying in those parking lots in my younger day. One such night a few of us were hanging out by the practice field right next to the Stadium & we're feeling nice!!!:cool :

Out of nowhere this black cadillac pulls up on the other end of the practice field & it's LT. He's about 100 yards away from us just hanging out by the front end of his car. We were like "Holy Crap!" We were just asking each other if we should go up & get an autograph, & he starts beating the crap out of the hood of his car with both hands screaming at the top of his lungs "WHY" over & over again. It's like 2AM, we're all 17 years old & there's a known drug addict acting highly unstable, so we jumped in the car & went to the parking lot by the arena to keep partying. After that, I never elevated these guys to that level of worship anymore.

That's a true story. That's probably the most interesting thing that's ever happened to me. I'm not going to tell you I met the pope next.

But, I prefer to remember LT this way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYi2gAAIL3k

KEEFRIFF...HELP!!!!

See the NY Giants guy??? I mention LT and AUTOMATICALLY he thinks I am talking about Lawrence Taylor.

Your personal experiences aside, I really don't recall him dropping off all that much (or Carson either, for that matter). Maybe it's because the bar was set so high, that anything else made them look like mere mortals...

While I appreciate the Lawrence Taylor insider info , I was referencing Ladanian Tomlinson - and how he has obviously lost a step, cannot do what he used to do, still wants to play and was let go by San Diego and is now - PLAYING IN YOUR STADIUM

Is what the Chargers did fair or foul?

On a side note: I guess you thought better of asking him for an autograph, huh?

[keefriff]

Originally Posted by qwerty007

I would like to propose, that in the spirit of the conversation we had that started all of this off, one of us picks a subject. It can be about our teams or other teams - and we lay out our POV's.

Pro's, con's, good and bad, have at it. We could even do it on a daily basis and rotate the person who chooses the subject.

As one never to shy away from conflict, if it is OK with you guys, I would like to start the proceedings and I will look into the mirror.

The Team: Pittsburgh Steelers

The Player: Ben Roethlisberger

The Deal: Suspension fair or foul?

Have at it...and I'll throw in my 2 cents...

BTW: Keefriff - can we start to call you RAGNAR??

Ragnar...LMFAO!!! Too funny! But the short answer is no you may not.

And you may not call me Vikadontis Rex either. That is the name of the stupid Barney like dinosaur that, for reasons unknown to me, prowls our sidelines striking fear into our enemies. Stupidest mascot ever.

As I told you earlier, love the Steelers. If I didn't have a hometown team I would cheer for them. They are one of the best, if not the best, franchise in the league. Huge props to the Rooneys and what they have done for Pittsburgh. Love the way they do things there.

Big Ben sounds like he behaved like a real a-hole the night in question. Sounds like that wasn't the first time he has done stuff like that either. Goodell is trying to crack down on the image of the NFL and he had to do something and I don't blame him. I read in SI that one of the Rooney sons read the police report of the Milledgeville incident and was just livid with what they described about Ben's behavior. I think if the NFL didn't suspend then the Steelers would have. I can't remember the length of the suspension. Is it 6 games? If it is, I think that is about right. I still think Steelers will be pretty good but man, with Cincy and Baltimore that is a tough division.

Good idea too Q! I'm all for it and I will try and think of some topics when my turn comes around.

Just saw the pics Q. LMFAO Again!!!!! Too frickin' funny!!!!!!

[grossnex]

Originally Posted by qwerty007

I would like to propose, that in the spirit of the conversation we had that started all of this off, one of us picks a subject. It can be about our teams or other teams - and we lay out our POV's.

Pro's, con's, good and bad, have at it. We could even do it on a daily basis and rotate the person who chooses the subject.

As one never to shy away from conflict, if it is OK with you guys, I would like to start the proceedings and I will look into the mirror.

The Team: Pittsburgh Steelers

The Player: Ben Roethlisberger

The Deal: Suspension fair or foul?

Have at it...and I'll throw in my 2 cents...

BTW: Keefriff - can we start to call you RAGNAR??

Omigod...did he know???? Was he part of the recruitment team???





(much respect - he's truly a GREAT mascot )

It must be cool to have a mascot....or cheerleaders .
I'll trade you a Super Bowl for your girls keefriff

OK Qwerty. The Steelers are in trouble in that division. The Ravens are no joke! Anquan Boldin is going to change the entire dynamic of that team. Ben has no running game to work with & he lost his favorite receiver. PIT will still be competitive, but it's going to be really tough with Ben missing time.

Ben is a great player! I love his attitude & winning spirit. He doesn't give up. I have to respect that. But, I know a thing or 2 about having that "bad guy" on my team. Big Ben keeps getting himself into these situations & embarrassing a very proud organization. The NFL has a strict conduct policy & I'm all for that. It sucks a wet fart out of a dirty bed sheet when it happens to a guy on your team, but if the rules don't apply to everybody then that's how we get the primadonnas in the 1st place.

Well, that's my take. I understand if you guys feel different. I'm eager to read your responses.