vhs tapes to computer / digitizing

[dhream]

Originally Posted by bluenoise

I'm not sure I understand the question. You would seem to have everything you need. Connect your VCR to your DVD recorder and copy the tapes to DVD. Then put the recorded DVD into your computer and rip to the desired format. You don't need any more hardware. Am I missing something?

bluenoise, I have tried this method with limited success, the picture quality suffers greatly, even more than when we alll used to dupe VHS to VHS. with the electromagnetic 'pulses' and the copy does not initiate at all or there are bars of noise on the copy making it unwatchable. However your later post mentions you pass your VCR signal THROUGH your Sony Vidcam to eliminate copy protection, what a great bit of lateral thinking! I have a Sony too, but my GF has taken it overseas... I may get it back by xmas (in one piece ;p)

dubsalute, it sounds like SCART connectors may eliminate the issues I have, but bluenoise was correct in suggesting I don't have SCART enabled kit. Here in Australia we use COAX (yellow white red) cables to hook up VCRs to other stuff. Your information about the discs is really useful! You may have saved me a lot of money (I tend to buy in bulk).

zorin, spoken like a true audiophile! I have IXOS and TITAN interconnects going to my Audiolab Amp that feeds my B&W speakers.... maybe I should look at the rubbish I'm using to hook up the VCR? Back when, (egad! my 15 yo VCR is almost 'legal'!) I was too poor, and the technology didn't warrant it -I've never thought to upgrade, until now. Thanks for the additional video capture info as well.

gs1, you hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what I was looking for. (It frees up my Vidcam so I can make home movies with the GF -that's her arse in my avatar!) I've also appreciated the other side-discussion that developed over which formats to work with, and the editiing/polishing info.

As a footnote, it looks like the next generation of interconnectivity (in my part of the world) will be HDMI, I'm also hearing promising things about blu-ray storage capacity...

Anyway, My first uploads (I'm a bit too busy at the mo' but hope to start these before Xmas) will be my present under the wood, er, tree, to you all.

Thanks!

[DubSalute]

Originally Posted by zorin

Personally I favour using a PC video capture card for transferring analogue video to digital because the driver software allows me to tweak the settings for each and every capture.

Small question on capture cards will that allow tweaking brightness/contrast/colors balance by working with the driver settings ? what can you tweak ?

With my DVD/HD recorder i can only set XP>SP>LP>EP where XP is the highest bitrate.

[zorin]

Originally Posted by DubSalute

Small question on capture cards will that allow tweaking brightness/contrast/colors balance by working with the driver settings ? what can you tweak ?

With my DVD/HD recorder i can only set XP>SP>LP>EP where XP is the highest bitrate.

I can set the bitrate and compression factor separately plus adjust the brightness, contrast, sharpness, hue and saturation of the picture.

Personally I prefer to adjust the picture quality in post-production i.e. not during capture but there are times when it is useful to beef things up a bit from the start.
Don't know if all capture cards have drivers that allow you to do all this.

I've tried an external usb capture device recently and wasn't impressed with the quality delivered. It came nowhere near the quality of my aging pinnacle card and the driver basically had the same settings you mentioned.

Z

[zorin]

Originally Posted by gs1

Thats not true,mpeg is the better way to record,
mpeg is interlaced (two fields) the same as analouge/digital TV,VHS tapes and also DVD

mpeg recordings WILL be nuch better quality,
If you want to convert to avi its better to do post recording.
record it as an mpeg then when using Virtualdub you can de-interlace to blend the two fields.

What I said was

capture to avi format and not mpg as avi is easier to edit

Mpeg is a final output format, avi is generally viewed as the better choice if you want to do editing.
There's a good explanation here : http://www.digitalfaq.com/dvdguides/capture/intro.htm
There's also some capture card info there as well.


Since dhream wants to capture his aging vhs tapes I'm assuming he'll have to do some editing that's why I mentioned it.
I recommend it based on my own experience and do not intend to start an argument about which format is best and should thus always be used.
Basically everyone has to determine what works best for them and use that.

Z

[groovesection]

You have mis-understood me!

mpeg & avi are as easy to edit a each other,
with mpeg you can edit in videoredo and direct stream copy
with avi you can edit in virtualdub and direct stream copy
so they are easy to edit as each other

HOWEVER

mpeg is interlaced (made up of two fields odd & even)
this is how analouge TV/digital TV and DVD`s & VHS tapes are.they are interlaced
go and read this,you might learn something
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlace

avi is not interlaced (it uses progressive scan)
and as such recording to avi will mean de-interlacing will take place,either the two fileds will be blended (best option) or 1 feild will be dropped,meaning 50% of the data in each frame will be lost,meaning lower quality!!

Also recording to avi means the encodng is done on the fly and this produces poor results! due to the fact de-interlacing is taking place and also compression is being aplied

I certainly am not looking to argue/cause a conflict,Im simply trying to help dhream get the best results from his transferal of VHS to digital,
He would be better off recording to mpeg,then either converting that to avi and editing it,or simply editing the mpeg then converting to avi,
this will ensure the best quality possible (coupled with a 2 pass encode)

Read that article on Wiki regarding interlacing and hopefully you`ll understand where i am coming from by reccomending recording to mpeg over avi

[zorin]

Originally Posted by gs1

You have mis-understood me!
<snip>
avi is not interlaced (it uses progressive scan)
and as such recording to avi will mean de-interlacing will take place,either the two fileds will be blended (best option) or 1 feild will be dropped,meaning 50% of the data in each frame will be lost,meaning lower quality!!

Also recording to avi means the encodng is done on the fly and this produces poor results! due to the fact de-interlacing is taking place and also compression is being aplied
<snip>
Read that article on Wiki regarding interlacing and hopefully you`ll understand where i am coming from by reccomending recording to mpeg over avi

I didn't misunderstand, but you are in error concerning AVI.

AVI is a container format and as such the video data in it can be compressed in any way depending on the codec used. This can be either interlaced or de-interlaced.

Capture cards which capture to AVI will do so using the M-JPEG format which most certainly interlaced (both fields are captured) so no loss of quality there.

May I suggest in turn you read the wiki entries on both avi and motion jpeg ?

[Sid ney]

AVI is only a container, which can accommodate any number of codec monstrosities. If you have a digital tape source, you're best off importing as an uncompressed/raw* AVI into Adobe Premiere, or your chosen editor. Do all the work there. mpeg2, ideally, should only be the final, resulting file before writing to dvd.

VHS>DVD recorder results in an mpeg2 compliant *.vob or *.vro file on disc. I use this simple program to tidy things up.

*Takes a lot of HD space.

[chiwa]

I have ton of stuff that I bought on VHS, and recorded to DVD in 4 hour mode. It looked good to me in that form, but if I rip it and convert it, will it be worth the time? There is some of my bad editing, (pause one, pause the other), to lose the guys cumshot face, but I haven't tried one yet. I have enough real DVD's to keep me busy for awhile, but if anyone knows how my other stuff may turn out, let me know.
Thanks will follow!!

[groovesection]

Originally Posted by zorin

Capture cards which capture to AVI will do so using the M-JPEG format which most certainly interlaced (both fields are captured) so no loss of quality there.

May I suggest in turn you read the wiki entries on both avi and motion jpeg ?

I offer my sincerest apologies,I was mis-informed regarding capture cards that capture to Avi,I was under the mis-conception that avi is only ever progressive scan,(how wrong was i lol)

Thank you for bringing this to my attention and i apologise for my mis-informed post.

As the "kids" would say..
"i got served"

[zorin]

Originally Posted by gs1

I offer my sincerest apologies,I was mis-informed regarding capture cards that capture to Avi,I was under the mis-conception that avi is only ever progressive scan,(how wrong was i lol)

Thank you for bringing this to my attention and i apologise for my mis-informed post.

As the "kids" would say..
"i got served"

Apologies weren't really necessary gs1, but they are appreciated.
I'm glad to have been able to clear a few matters up for you.

Originally Posted by chiwa

I have ton of stuff that I bought on VHS, and recorded to DVD in 4 hour mode. It looked good to me in that form, but if I rip it and convert it, will it be worth the time? There is some of my bad editing, (pause one, pause the other), to lose the guys cumshot face, but I haven't tried one yet. I have enough real DVD's to keep me busy for awhile, but if anyone knows how my other stuff may turn out, let me know.
Thanks will follow!!

If your intention is to rip the resulting DVD and convert it to AVI or MPEG
then there won't be any improvement in the resulting image.

Re-capturing the original VHS tape with the aid of a capture card might
give better results but will involve more work. It is not a simple "one click does
the trick" job.
With a capture card you can adjust the compression settings to get the best
capture result. But this will only give you a digital copy of the VHS version.
To improve the image will require editing and tinkering with filter settings using a variety of filters.
Whether the time required for doing all this is worth it, is up to you to decide.

If you still have the titles of your VHS stuff, it might be easier to first find out whether there's a good digital copy of it already floating around the net somewhere and simply download that.

Z