bring back hanging yes or no?

[Venus2]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Rudolph Hess eventually hanged himself to escape the terms of his sentence, where he had no fellow inmates to talk to and the guards turned their backs on him whenever he came close by. He wasn't just incarcerated, he was shunned, sent to Coventry, boycotted.

The 'facts' surrounding Hess' suicide are debatable.

[billybunter]

Lets not forget that the death sentence can create martyrs.

[cuzzyman927]

Originally Posted by fleetwood77

The UK has no death penalty yet has a much lower murder rate than the USA where the murder rate , as you state above, is out of control.

So it doesn't seem to me me that the death penalty is very effective as a deterrent.

It probably would prove more effective if the sentences were carried out. The problem is that many times many of the convicted sit on "death row" for many years, or the sentences are not carried out for various reasons. In fact, some get murdered by other inmates, some die by their own hand, and some may end up dying from natural causes or old age.

And those inmates who murder other inmates and who have also murdered out on the streets, are those the ones and type that some are "defending" against being executed, and who could possibly be paroled back out on to the streets to commit more murders against some poor innocent and unsuspecting individual(s)?

[stryder]

Nope.

Though I will say given the choice of modes of death - electric, gas, shooting, injection, I would say that hanging, done properly is the most humane.

But then again a state killing its citizens is never something I'd stand for.

[tamsmith]

Scoundrel.

I understand the points you are making and I certainly do not disagree with them. Your point about Hess was well put but that kind of punishment is not allowed any more.

Like I said my views have changed over the years but there has to be some kind of punishment if a crime is committed. The more serious crime the greater the punishment. Surely, but that no longer happens.

We all know about the Human Rights legislation, which from my understanding, means that the cost to the Taxpayer for any incarcerated person has increased dramatically over the past 12 years.

Rather than go into great detail I have "friends and acquaintances" who have had time or times inside. They say that going back "in" is not a problem. First offenders worry because it is the unknown, for "old lags" its an easy life (non murderers). Murderers get a stricter regiem but they still get 3 good meals a day, comfy bed, a roof over their head plus a TV and a playstation. Hess would be laughing nowadays.

Sorry to be boring, but one point that emphasises this is a case in Beerland where the convict "jumped the queue" for a hip replacement incase the prison service were sued.

[cuzzyman927]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Actually, our murder rate is the lowest its been in a generation. Interestingly, notwithstanding hard economic times, it continues to fall, everywhere



In 2007 New York City had the fewest murders since consistent records began being kept

I don't know, maybe New York (4 years ago back in 2007) had the fewest murder and crime rate, but all I can say is that it is very difficult for me to put any stock and credibility into those statistic reports when every time I pick up the daily newspaper or turn on the evening news, all I see is a barrage of local and national reports of murders, rapes, child molestations, home/car invasions, drive-by/school shootings, and the list goes on!

My father was in law enforcement for nearly 35 years, and quite often those statistic reports are issued and released in an attempt to calm, relax, and appease the general public into a false sense of security. In actuality, those report numbers/percentage points are generally a little higher, but in releasing the actual numbers some of the general public could feel somewhat apprehensive to leave their homes, go out store/mall shopping, etc., which would further damage an already crippled economy. The authorities/government can often be quite devious and deceptive in their actions and tactics, as we all have no doubt seen countless times!

It seems that more of the violence and criminal acts are now spreading out into and occurring in more of the smaller towns, communities, and rural areas as well, whereas previously it more more dominant and prevalent in larger and major cities.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by cuzzyman927

I don't know, maybe New York (4 years ago back in 2007) had the fewest murder and crime rate, but all I can say is that it is very difficult for me to put any stock and credibility into those statistic reports when every time I pick up the daily newspaper or turn on the evening news, all I see is a barrage of local and national reports of murders, rapes, child molestations, home/car invasions, drive-by/school shootings, and the list goes on!

You are falling for sensationalism . . . you read a story about something terrible happening somewhere, and infer that its common or increasing in frequency.

So a question for you:

How many murders are there in a "barrage"? Is that more or less than there were 5,10, or 20 years ago?

I'd refer you to the FBI, who collect uniform crime statistics from around the nation. They don't have newspapers to sell, and you'll find no sensational stories. . . just the data. The data are overwhelming, and all point in the same direction. Crime rates have fallen dramatically from 50,40,30,20, 10 and 5 years ago.

Originally Posted by FBI, "Crimes Rates Fall Again"

Preliminary FBI figures reveal that the levels of both violent crime and property crime in the U.S. declined in 2010 from the previous year's data.

The 2010 Preliminary Annual Uniform Crime Report, just released today, shows a 5.5 percent decrease in the number of reported violent crimes when compared with data from 2009. It also shows a 2.8 percent decline in reported property crimes.

This latest report is based on information submitted to the FBI from 13,007 law enforcement agencies around the country. The crimes covered are murder, forcible rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson.

Here's a link to the full report "Crime in the United States, 2009" (most recent full report)
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/index.html

Here's a link to preliminary report "Crime in the United States, 2010" [most recent data]
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...r-jan-dec-2010

Here's a link to data on all major crimes from 1990 to 2010, in tabular form
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_01.html

[jewelman]

Originally Posted by billybunter

In theory yes. But too many mistakes can be made. And I don't think it is a deterrent. In fact letting scum like Ian Huntley Rose West and others rot in jail is a better punishment than hanging.

Exactly

[red exposure]

I find it absolutely disheartening that we've generated such a culture of fear in the UK, that something like Capital Punishment is even being discussed as a solution to anything, let alone being raised in Parliament as something which might have to be reintroduced.

As far as the science-bit goes, even in this age of advanced-DNA analysis, there would appear there's still a lot of margin for error which ultimately amounts to wrongful convictions. Here's a link to the (ever reliable) New Scientist, and an article on DNA-coincidences, and another suggesting the conviction of Amanda Knox in the Meredith Kercher Murder Case may have been based on unreliable DNA evidence (not exactly pertinent to the UK, being an Italian case, but it's a very recent example of shaky DNA evidence in a country notorious for it's even shakier legal practices).

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...es.html?page=2

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...e-2329292.html

Above and beyond the science, we have to consider our Police seem - ever increasingly - to hurry their work along to the tune of bogus statistics and quotas, bowing more and more to "public demand", a phantom-demand whipped up by a nasty, avaricious Media preying on people's fears. If politicians' work is so heavily influenced by the Media and how they choose to perform their duties, public perception can't be that much different in it's pronounced effect on Police work either (and whether the pressure to catch a dangerous criminal will cause cutting corners in procedure and rushing through vital evidence to maintain public confidence that the Police are "doing their jobs").

Here's a link to the e-petition against this bill being reintroduced.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1090

I for one will sign. It's a sad day when we start taking steps back toward the Dark Ages, having boundless faith in flawed technology whilst locking up and potentially executing a number of innocent civilians, just so we can tell the reactionary, bitter, and perpetually-fearful Pro-CP campaigners that the country will be safe forevermore like it was in The Good Old Days.

[spitalhouse]

I believe that the state is perfectly justified in deciding that certain crimes are so abhorrent as to make it morally and practically necessary to remove the perpetrators from civil society. My opposition to the death penalty therefore isn't concerned with being 'soft' on murderers, rapists and child molesters but is a reflection of my belief in the sanctity of all human life (and referring to criminals as monsters or animals doesn't alter the fact that they are human) and whether the state (with or without a popular mandate) has the right to kill anyone it believes doesn't deserve to carry on living.

And in response to the pervasive and compelling question of how I would feel if someone close to me were themselves a victim of murder, the answer is that I may very well want perpetrator dead - but I would be wrong to expect the state to be complicit in that desire. The role of a modern and civilised justice system doesn't and shouldn't exist to settle scores by pandering to our desire for revenge.

It's an easy thing to say let's bring back hanging, safe in the (misguided) belief that the moral and social consequences of such a decision would be confined to the fate of the criminal or potential criminal. I honestly believe, however, that if Britain were to reintroduce the death penalty the consequences would be felt throughout all aspects of our lives. I'm not suggesting that these consequences would become apparent immediately, but when the time came (as it ultimately would) for the state to put someone to death we as a nation, collectively and individually, would be forced to confront ourselves and what it is we stand for, and I for one would be ashamed that such an act was about to be carried-out in my name.

Regards.