Atheist, are you one??

[howerd]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

I don't know about Nobody1 but I would answer a great big yes to that one. Anyone who claims to know that there is no other plane of existence except this one, no God, no further reality after death or outside this life, is claiming to know something which can neither be proven nor disproven. As for health, as soom as we are born our only certainties are that we will eventually die and that in between we will pay taxes. It is also highly probable, but not absolutely certain, that we will have to shop at least once at IKEA.

I see what you are saying so here's a question: Would you say fairies might be real? I would guess not, but why? Because there is zero evidence they exist -no one can even give you a reliable description of what a fairy looks like. How is this any different from any deity? There is a common misconception about atheism which is atheists all go around saying 'There IS no God'. Maybe the odd atheist does say this but actually if you ask 90% of them they simply say they do not believe in gods. I do not believe in fairies OR gods but I'm not saying either is totally out of the question. I'm just saying there is zero reliable evidence that either exist so why is either one any more plausible than the other one? Please watch the YouTube clip below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs3RKZjSzYg

[BigBucket]

I used to believe a long time ago but when my Mum and Dad died in a very short space of time killed my belief very quick. The advent of the internet around the same time enabled me to study my belief further and i realised the Christian faith I was brought up to believe in was nothing more than a bunch of stories based off several other faiths that were around thousands of years before. None of the other faiths appealed to me for various reasons. I then realised I became an athiest or an agnostic with heavy critical reasonings.

Yes there is so much in the universe we dont understand, where do the whole of creation come from out of nothing. What is God: a human beings attempt in our tiny minds to try and understand the nature of the universe.

Life after death, UFO's, Time travel, faster than light. All these things and a million more questions. Do they exist/ dont they. We dont know not for certain. In this huge universe I like to think they do exist. However the answer to those questions, for me no longer reside in the Good book.

[billybunter]

Just remembered when my dad took my brother and me to join the cub scouts. They asked my dad what religion our family subscribed to. He said none. NONE! The scout leader nearly passed out

[CARLTON BROWN]

Religion is mostly man-made nonsense and a very effective method of controlling the uneducated masses. Dawkins has sometimes described it as a mental virus and I'll go along with that. I do not believe you need faith in God - or whatever, to be a decent person.

I'm not saying I know if there is an afterlife or a supreme being, although I've seen no proof of this and don't really care one way or the other, as it won't make the slightest difference to my life.

I'm not expecting any more than oblivion when I finally go up the chimney, so should there actually turn out to be some higher plane of existence, this will be very interesting and quite a surprise. When I get there, my first port of call will be The Complaints Department.

[howerd]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

But that's the same thing, isn't it? If you reject organised religion but still believe in a life after death, you may be heretical but you still have a faith. Likewise, if you do positively believe that there is no life after death, that's also a faith, because you believe something which is not scientifically knowable. If you merely state that you don't know the answer, then that's an agnostic rather than an atheist position.

True, but regardless of how healthy our lifestyles are or aren't, we all end up dead, eventually.

WHOOOW THERE! - 'Likewise, if you do positively believe that there is no life after death, that's also a faith, because you believe something which is not scientifically knowable.' No no no! Disbelief isn't a faith based position it simply a response to a claim: 'I don't believe you.' not 'I believe in a lack of gods' If you do not believe in pixies is THAT a faith based attitude? Of course not! If you do not believe in flying saucers is THAT a faith based attitude? No. This is why believing there are no gods is no more faith based than believing there are no elves. There's no empirical evidence for either.

What you don't appreciate is it is not a contradiction to be an agnostic atheist. Agnosticism = what you do not KNOW. Atheism = what you do not BELIEVE. I do not claim to KNOW there are no gods however I cannot bring myself to BELIEVE there are any due to the lack of evidence. The same goes for other evidence free claims like pixies, fairies, elves, flying saucers etc. An atheist is not really making a concrete claim, they are merely responding to one. The theists are the people who should be demonstrating that their claims are not based on assumptions that some book or another is accurate not the people who doubt it. If I were to tell you I know there are extra-terrestrials, is the burden of proof on ME or on the person who does not believe I have any tangible reason to state this claim is a reliable claim? Well?

[Frakas]

I just went through this whole thing on another forum, where I said what my opinion on the matter was, and despite my proclamations that I respect the other sides opinion, I got nothing but endless ridicule and a lot of unmitigated insults despite the fact that I didn't lose my cool. To put it mildly, it did nothing for my opinion of the other side's beliefs.

Needless to say, I am not going to specifically state my opinion here, because let's face it, anonymity seems to be a license for some to be a complete a-hole, and I am just not in the mood for more of that.

[GogglesPisano]

If I'm honest with myself, I'd have to say I'm an atheist - I just can't bring myself to believe in the mumbo jumbo, and I'm disgusted by the things that are done in the name of religion: much of it seems to be designed simply to control and exploit people.

That said, I do have friends and family members - intelligent people, that I respect - who seem to find real inspiration and strength in their faith. It provides a framework for people to come together and acknowledge life's important milestones - birth, marriage, death - and it provides solace during times where no concrete answers can be found anywhere else. I think these kind of institutions are necessary, a basic human need.

I guess I like the theory of religion, but find its application to be extremely unsatisfactory.

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by Frakas

I just went through this whole thing on another forum, where I said what my opinion on the matter was,....., I got nothing but endless ridicule and a lot of unmitigated insults

At least you know what to expect here then!

[Frakas]

Originally Posted by fleetwood77

At least you know what to expect here then!

Thanks a lot.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by howerd

WHOOOW THERE! - 'Likewise, if you do positively believe that there is no life after death, that's also a faith, because you believe something which is not scientifically knowable.' No no no! I believe there is no God but this isn't a faith based position. If you do not believe in pixies is THAT a faith based attitude? Of course not! If you do not believe in flying saucers is THAT a faith based attitude? No. This is why believing there are no gods is no more faith based than believing there are no elves. There's no empirical evidence for either.

What you don't appreciate is it is not a contradiction to be an agnostic atheist. Agnosticism = what you do not KNOW. Atheism = what you do not BELIEVE. I do not claim to KNOW there are no gods however I cannot bring myself to BELIEVE there are any due to the lack of evidence. The same goes for other evidence free claims like pixies, fairies, elves, flying saucers etc. An atheist is not really making a concrete claim, they are merely responding to one. The theists are the people who should be demonstrating that their claims are not based on assumptions that some book or another is accurate not the people who doubt it. If I were to tell you I know there are extra-terrestrials, is the burden of proof on ME or on the person who does not believe I have any tangible reason to state this claim is a reliable claim? Well?

I am turning down the volume on your post; hope you don't object but we don't shout on VEF.

http://atheism.about.com/od/definiti...definition.htm

I consider the position you have just set out to be an agnostic position, yes. You have no faith; you analyse the world empirically and on a systematic, rational basis. When you say you do not believe there is any God/are any Gods, you stop short of saying that you positively believe that there is no God/are no Gods. You think God does not exist; but in the absence of irrefutable evidence you decline to nail your colours to the mast. This is quite balanced and rational thinking, but I must decline to accept that you are an atheist. You have an opinion, but for all that, your argument is agnostic, a "don't know" position.

In your definition, an atheist is defined by his/her lack of belief. This is the "weak atheism" position referred to in my link. I (perhaps because I have belief) classify this as an agnostic/non-committal position. Lack of belief is not belief; it is indecision. Atheists know that there is no God, even though they can't prove it; this is the "strong atheism" position referred to in my link. Agnostics ("weak atheists") define themselves through lack of belief; "strong atheists" have a belief. I am making a rather nerdy and nit-picking semantic distinction here but if we are going to have this discussion we should define our terms.