I hate the homeless

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

I just saw that. Must have been a falling out among thieves.

They all deserve to go to prison in this case. probably won't be so much of a hardship for the homeless guy though.

The homeless guy is a Marine Corp vet with substance abuse problems. The VA will go to great lengths to help vets , if they want and use the help. But substance abuse guys usually have underlying mental health problems. I always wonder how they got through recruitment, training and active duty. Combat just drives these guys into very dark places.

But you are right. The vet will probably do just fine in prison.

[ShutUpLutz!]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

The homeless guy is a Marine Corp vet with substance abuse problems. The VA will go to great lengths to help vets , if they want and use the help. But substance abuse guys usually have underlying mental health problems. I always wonder how they got through recruitment, training and active duty. Combat just drives these guys into very dark places.

But you are right. The vet will probably do just fine in prison.

Well, I think that the fact that some of the people currently or recently discharged have done as many as 20 rotations into and out of combat zones in Iraq/Afghanistan; THAT will fuck someone up. But it doesn't have to be 20 rotations; people join the military thinking it's going to be one thing and are straight out LIED to by the recruiters about what they could do in the Army/Navy etc, but when they actually get in it is NOT at all what they expected. I'm not even talking about basic, which they probably have some idea of from movies like Full Metal Jacket/An Office & A Gentleman, but afterwards, out in the field when you aren't just firing at a paper target, but an actual person.

And right now in the US, outside of the service academies, we aren't getting the best of the best, far from it. The % of gang members/white supremacists in the US military has never been higher and the average IQ is nearing an alltime low, because we are taking the dregs of society, the people for whom the military truly is the only road they can take.

And of course we are spending what is it $782,000,000,000 on the defense budget. More than China, Russia, France, Germany and England COMBINED.

Fuck.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by ShutUpLutz!

And right now in the US, outside of the service academies, we aren't getting the best of the best, far from it. The % of gang members/white supremacists in the US military has never been higher and the average IQ is nearing an alltime low, because we are taking the dregs of society, the people for whom the military truly is the only road they can take.

This is a misconception. Only about 15% of our youth can pass the physical and mental tests to enlist. Oddly, I do know some mentally ill people who eluded detection and were enrolled. One problem is that the other recruits will often bond together and provide the support that a substandard recruit needs to pass the testing done in basic training. A criminal record is an impediment to enlisting nowadays. This is quite a contrast to the old European practice of recruiting the violent dregs of society for military service. The excesses of the medieval and Renaissance soldiery are a testament to the perils of this practice.

[ShutUpLutz!]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

This is a misconception. Only about 15% of our youth can pass the physical and mental tests to enlist. Oddly, I do know some mentally ill people who eluded detection and were enrolled. One problem is that the other recruits will often bond together and provide the support that a substandard recruit needs to pass the testing done in basic training. A criminal record is an impediment to enlisting nowadays. This is quite a contrast to the old European practice of recruiting the violent dregs of society for military service. The excesses of the medieval and Renaissance soldiery are a testament to the perils of this practice.

Actually the standards for admission, including IQ and criminal records can and do change by the week, depending on several factors. I'd agree that a criminal record is an impediment to enlisting today, but it isn't an automatic disqualification. Pot being legalized in more and more states is going to be an impediment to enlistment, I can't imagine how many enlistees are going to wash out before they even get to basic because they fail the piss test when they go to the induction center and take the ASVAB and other stuff. The US is drawing a good % of enlistees from the South which has seen a resurgence in racism and bigotry since Trump arrived on the scene. And being a racist and a bigot isn't illegal. Hateful, yes? Illegal, no.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by ShutUpLutz!

Well, I think that the fact that some of the people currently or recently discharged have done as many as 20 rotations into and out of combat zones in Iraq/Afghanistan; THAT will fuck someone up.

You make a good point. I was talking with a friend -- now retired, but working as a contractor-- and he's essentially been in a combat zone nearly every year since he enlisted circa 1987, its an amazing number of hours spent being wary.

He comes home, and he's just wired differently. I thought he was joking when he said "you don't mind sitting with your back to the door?"

His level of vigilance is just wildly different than mine. Someone has to do something for me to notice them-- he's looking at everyone on a crowded street, all the time. Its exhausting.

[ShutUpLutz!]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

You make a good point. I was talking with a friend -- now retired, but working as a contractor-- and he's essentially been in a combat zone nearly every year since he enlisted circa 1987, its an amazing number of hours spent being wary.

He comes home, and he's just wired differently. I thought he was joking when he said "you don't mind sitting with your back to the door?"

His level of vigilance is just wildly different than mine. Someone has to do something for me to notice them-- he's looking at everyone on a crowded street, all the time. Its exhausting.

Your last sentence kind of broke my heart.

Has your friend looked into getting some counseling/therapy? I know the VA is more than a little fucked up now, but I also know that shrinks/counselors will often give discounts. And it doesn't have to be a weekly appointment. Also not meant in a joking manner, but are there any type of Vets Anonymous group get togethers like Alcoholics Anonymous?

I've wondered why we didn't see higher numbers of suicides of soldiers after WWII, but I guess it really was different, they got 52 weeks of pay, so they didn't have to work if they didn't want to, PLUS the GI Bill.

It infuriates me how Trump is always yelling "WHAT ABOUT OUR FABULOUS ARMED FORCES, AM I RIGHT!!!! AND WE'RE MAKING THEM SO GREAT AND DOING SO MUCH TO MAKE THEM GREAT AGAIN!!!" and the reality is he's squatting over them and taking a shit on them.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by ShutUpLutz!

Your last sentence kind of broke my heart.

Has your friend looked into getting some counseling/therapy? I know the VA is more than a little fucked up now, but I also know that shrinks/counselors will often give discounts. .

He has, and I once dated an Army psychiatrist so I've learned a thing or two about it.

One of the shrink's observations was that guys like him start out hyper-vigilant, that's what selection is all about. Its then tweaked with training, and bathed in adrenaline in years of combat. At the end, you've got a guy you're not going to unwind easily, or at all really. They're doing some experiments with MDMA (Ecstasy) which seem to help a bit

But realistically, folks like this have to live someplace quiet, and reduce the number of people they're interacting with. A lot of these guys figure this out themselves, that's part of why they end up living in places like Washington's Olympic Peninsula.

Some self medicate with drugs and booze, but others like my friend know the danger, stone cold sober, doesn't drink a drop. So he's about as OK as he's likely to be.

[Mal Hombre]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

This is quite a contrast to the old European practice of recruiting the violent dregs of society for military service. The excesses of the medieval and Renaissance soldiery are a testament to the perils of this practice.

The Duke of Wellington described His redcoats as the "Scum of the Earth" but they defeated Napoleon's Marshals ,One after the other in the Peninsular.

[Rogerbh]

https://www.city-journal.org/seattle-homelessness

Seattle realizing that if they spend $100,000 per homeless person, more will come.

Amazing!!!!

[bowlinggreen]

For $100,000 a person, we could give each one 40 acres of land in a way-out rural area, a small 2 room shack, a small garden tractor with attachments, various implements, some chickens and seeds, and a years supply of food, clothes and fuel to help start them on their way to self-sufficiency.

The liberals could help support them by buying their vegetables and organic grain rather than buying the crap that comes in from Cali and Mexico off the big farms.

But then the bureaucrats, politicians and city hall grifters would have to forego the 95% cut they expected from each $100,000.