Questions for our British friends

[bjcb0]

Originally Posted by ShutUpLutz!

I had always thought that when one spoke of or read about Cambridge and Oxford that they were talking about a single, unique university/college, like say Harvard or Yale University here in the US. But it seems that in England colleges are grouped together in a few cities. Is this the case or is it that Cambridge and Oxford are so famous that they seem to be just one entity?

Think of it as a federal system: the colleges are independent entities and are analogous to the states, while the university is analogous to the federal government. The academic departments (Mathematics, History, etc) are all organised at the university level, so every undergraduate attends the same lectures, but the colleges handle accommodation and individual tutorials. Each college will have students and academics (fellows) in almost every subject and each college will handle student tutorials (in the Cambridge system these are typically given to pairs of students by a college fellow or a PhD student), although the colleges also cooperate. Much, but not all, social activity occurs within a college (there is a college bar and a hall for meals, typically), although there are also university-wide clubs, whether academic or otherwise. The colleges are mostly concentrated within a fairly small area in both Oxford and Cambridge and are separate complexes -- think of them as academic gated communities, although it's much more informal than that might suggest. Some of this does occur in the US (e.g. Radcliffe and Harvard) and Canada, but it's fairly rare. Oxford and Cambridge are entirely separate universities roughly 80 miles apart, but are sometimes confused because they are referred to as Oxbridge (and, archaically, Camford). They were the only English universities until the 19th century (i.e. they had a monopoly and even their own MPs!), but there were several excellent Scottish universities too.

[ShutUpLutz!]

Originally Posted by bjcb0

Think of it as a federal system: the colleges are independent entities and are analogous to the states, while the university is analogous to the federal government. The academic departments (Mathematics, History, etc) are all organised at the university level, so every undergraduate attends the same lectures, but the colleges handle accommodation and individual tutorials. Each college will have students and academics (fellows) in almost every subject and each college will handle student tutorials (in the Cambridge system these are typically given to pairs of students by a college fellow or a PhD student), although the colleges also cooperate. Much, but not all, social activity occurs within a college (there is a college bar and a hall for meals, typically), although there are also university-wide clubs, whether academic or otherwise. The colleges are mostly concentrated within a fairly small area in both Oxford and Cambridge and are separate complexes -- think of them as academic gated communities, although it's much more informal than that might suggest. Some of this does occur in the US (e.g. Radcliffe and Harvard) and Canada, but it's fairly rare. Oxford and Cambridge are entirely separate universities roughly 80 miles apart, but are sometimes confused because they are referred to as Oxbridge (and, archaically, Camford). They were the only English universities until the 19th century (i.e. they had a monopoly and even their own MPs!), but there were several excellent Scottish universities too.

Ah, I was just looking at the official Oxford site and now I understand the whole University/college thing that you were writing about in your first few sentences. I must admit I really didn't get exactly what you meant but now I think I do.

Oxford University is more or less the equivalent of a state university here in the US, or more precisely a state university system. Like, in North Carolina, you have UNC, which is the University of North Carolina, which is located in Chapel Hill. You also have NCSU, (North Carolina State University), located in Raleigh, UNCG (University of North Carolina Greensboro) and others. they are all public universities, meaning they get money from the state as well as from grants, donors and tuition, but they operate independently and are located in different cities, and while there is some co-ordination between them, there are also rivalries due to sports.

It seems to me that the various colleges in Oxford are kind of like fraternities and sororities here in the US, is that kind of right or am I way off base?

Thanks for answering my post, I'm actually learning some new things, which is cool.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by ShutUpLutz!

I was rewatching and rereading Brideshead Revisited (the version with Sir Lawrence and Jeremy Irons, not that daft movie from a few years ago) and I don't understand the whole college thing and Cambridge and Oxford.

One additional point: the colleges themselves have very different social characters, somewhat like fraternities at an American school. They're less socially distinct than they were in Evelyn Waugh's day, but they're still plenty different.

So St Antony's is more academic (and only has graduate students, no undergrads), while others are known for being more athletic, and indeed for particular sports e.g. Christchurch and rowing. American Rhodes Scholars at Oxford will often be at Balliol, one of the oldest colleges, which tends to get ambitious young politicos (eg Bill Clinton, Paul Sarbanes, George Stephanopolous). The colleges themselves decide who they'll take among the students admitted to Oxford, a process which is not too transparent.

The colleges vary tremendously in age and endowment-- the oldest colleges date to the 13th century, the newest to 2008. Colleges have individual separate endowments, which vary tremendously as well, from about $10 million to $600 million.

While some American universities have residential colleges that look a bit like Oxford (Yale and Princeton's residential colleges are more or less dormitories with eating facilities and intramural teams, together with academic advising), they're not nearly so independent as their English counterparts.

[bjcb0]

Originally Posted by ShutUpLutz!

Oxford University is more or less the equivalent of a state university here in the US, or more precisely a state university system.

This isn't quite correct, but the background is harder to explain. Oxford and Cambridge are private universities which have been quasi-nationalised, so almost all UK universities are like state universities in that sense. As with so much in Britain, the system has evolved over centuries, so it's messy and complex.

It seems to me that the various colleges in Oxford are kind of like fraternities and sororities here in the US, is that kind of right or am I way off base?

No, they're not like fraternities. I suppose the easiest way to think of it is to view the colleges as mini-universities in their own right, but these mini-universities are bound into the larger scheme of the university. Every undergraduate belongs to a college, which provides accommodation (usually for all three years of the degree these days) and also provides tutorials. The college might have, say, 300 students and 70 fellows (i.e. academics), but they vary greatly in size (the Oxford colleges are smaller). The fellows provide tutorials to the students (in pairs, typically weekly) and pastoral care, and the college will also provide a hall (where people eat) and rooms -- think Hogwarts for the older colleges. Most fellows are also university staff, so they provide university lectures and do research. Each college is run by its fellows (it's a democracy, but not for the students) and many will have centuries of endowments making this possible (as John Harvard endowed Harvard). All universities degrees cost the same in the UK (essentially), but that's a complicated subject that's nothing to do with Oxford and Cambridge, and the student fees are shared between the university and the student's college. It really isn't straightforward at all . . .

[dbailey]

To add a little more insight into Oxford and Cambridge see the following:

https://www.thecompleteuniversitygui...and-cambridge/

Entry is by academic achievement only (almost only) Students may need to sit additional examinations and have a sponsor in the form of a former graduate.

As others have said, you go up to either Oxford or Cambridge by being accepted by a College.

You are only allowed to approach one of the cities in any one application year but you may apply to more than one college within that University.

The majority of the colleges are close to each other, for example it is possible to walk around all but a couple of the outer lying colleges in 30 minutes in Cambridge.

The only other old UK University with a similar collegiate system is Durham and again undergraduates are accepted by a college and live in, they have a college tutor as well as an academic tutor. Durham these days also has associated colleges around the north East of England that were former Technical Colleges... and these use the Durham name.. Of note that the red brick University ...University of Newcastle upon Tyne prior to the 1960's was actually Kings College Durham and held the applied science and Medical school. When Newcastle gained its own charter in the 1960's, Durham effectively lost its medical school and applied sciences school together with Marine Engineering and Naval Architecture.

Durham used to be known for taking OxBridge rejects in that students who didn't get the grade required for their chosen Oxbridge college would often take up a lesser offer place at Durham as opposed to resitting and applying a year later.

[vo1v0d]

For scale, some of the Oxford/Cambridge colleges have a couple of thousand students but there are a few with less than two hundred. Byword. Students attending Cambridge rush to get rooms that do not face east because they are freezing cold in winter as the next high ground is the Urals.

[Rogerbh]

This guy killed his ex-wife in front of his kids? You don't have the death penalty, do you?

He deserves to fry.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/13/uk/ba...ntl/index.html

[Davemetalhead]

No we don't have the death penalty - because it's barbaric. There have been enough cases of wrong convictions in the past to show that far too many innocent people would have been killed by the state if the death penalty still existed here.

[haroldeye]

And for the hundred years before stopping hanging the murder rate was 3 per million. Now it's at least twice that. It's barbaric to casually murder someone.

I fully agree with you though, we can't trust either the police or the CPS and Courts to get it right and until we can, letting the guilty swing shouldn't be an option.

[bjcb0]

Originally Posted by Nick Danger

1. This may seem like a weird question to ask on a porn -- er, I mean erotica -- forum, but what is meant by the phrase "made my toilet"? This pops up frequently in the Flashman novels (set in Victorian times), i.e. "The butler came in and made my toilet".

2. What exactly is meant by the phrase "Wednesday week"? Do people say "Tuesday week' or "Thursday week"?

3. What is a bank holiday?

4. If private schools are called "public schools", what are public schools called?

1. This is from the French "faire sa toilette", meaning washing (or providing facilities for washing). A toilette is simply a little cloth or towel, since that's what was used for washing. Thus toilet is a British English euphemism for place to urinate/excrete, although it became too direct for American English, hence the newer euphemism of bathroom. Perhaps we should all revert to the more honest term bog!

4. They're just called schools. The terminology predates general UK state education, which began in 1870. The public schools were simply open to all, but required fees or scholarships, or were funded by wealthy founders or the church. There were private schools which were not open to all, such as cathedral schools, hence the distinction.