Lynda Carter ~ Colleen Camp Picture Debate

[serio02]

Yeah...about Linda Carpenter in "Beauty in Parade". I have the DVDs, I have the subtitles and nobody mentioned someone "Betsy" and sincerely, I don´t recognize her in that episode (apparently she is one of the candidates). If someone can point her, it would be a help.

[serio02]

OK, I found her. This is who they called "Betsy":


Think you than she is similar to this one?:

Or even so than she is similar to Lynda?!?!!

[moonspellsmoon]

Yeah, I've read through this whole thing.

The direct facts are not perfect, but the corroboration is enough to suppose that Lynda Carter was in the film, and spent a couple of days on location, and could have been photographed per the legend. The best here is the Flash Cadillac quote vs. the Colleen Camp quote vs. the Wonderland site bio, which are impartial corroboration by a multiple sources that have no reason to twist the facts.

The mole thing would be an OK piece of evidence if the pictures weren't so screwed up by JPEG artifacts. The best picture from Harvey has no mole. Lynda Carter doesn't have any either (that I can tell).

Now, I like to fake Lynda Carter. I am not the world's greatest faker, but I have a decent eye. I've "beat" some experts in those little contests. I have every 'headshot' there is. I've been through the entire unpublished archive at Wonderland, which clearly has an archive right from Lynda Carter or her agent or something.

That headshot doesn't seem exist outside that photo. Show me the HS, and this is done. I can buy that it could have been lost since 1982. But Wonderland has everything. Including many that they have only thumbnailed and that haven't been released.

The bodyshot - I wouldn't go so far as to say it can't be Colleen Camp. But there are real differences. Without even looking at the boobs, the hair is different (not that curly), the fingernails are really different, the jeans are a different pair, and the body doesn't look proportionate. So, whomever that body is, it seems very different from the Colleen Camp body. Did Colleen camp switch jeans, pull off big-ass fingernails, and get her hair curled kind of frizzy in the middle of the shoot? Even that week?

A few more things.

You can look at Lynda Carter's boobs in a few revealing pictures. And discounting size variations for menstruation, or a cold room, or whatever and lighting as well, she indeed seemed to have modest boobs that have largish areolae towards the bottom (not middle), just as in the photo. You can watch Bobbie Jo on NetFlix, and verify that you can't rule it out (especially the quarry pool scene). These boobs are consistent *enough* not to be able to rule them out. That is very weird for a fake. There are a million kinds of boobs. When you are doing a fake it is very very hard to match anatomy to everything else you want (indoor/outdoor lighting, angles, etc.)

So you can't rule out that she was in the right place at the right time. You can't rule out the photos on anatomy. You can't rule out that she appeared nude in a film, and would be more likely to do so for Coppola, who had already made the Godfather and American Graffiti. At the time she hadn't found jesus or whatever and was game. You can't rule out that there are no other known photos in existence that would serve as the headshot or the bodyshot.

And the second thing - you can't rule out that this job of faking, in 1982 in the days of airbrushing, was not trivial & needed a reason to exist. The Fake Detective, a known no-talent douche, concluded that Expose magazine created it themselves for the purpose of the article. OK. But he also concluded "I think there is probably another shot from the same Colleen Camp photo shoot around that was the actual picture used as the model." Um....no.

He really doesn't get it. The lighting angle is right, the hotspots are possible. But the head angle is just right. The neck tendons match. Do you have any idea how long it takes me to find a matching head to a particular body shot, even with a huge library of both? The hair is just right on the head too, meaning either a face paste angle is perfect or it's Lynda Carter's hair. Which, by the way, is kind of distinctively puffy on her big old head. You would need a book of 50 head shots and 50 body shots to find a random match with out the other coincidences. And the lighting - indoor, playboy style. And the anatomy - boobs, waist, etc. And no moles (who has no moles? Lynda carter) And all these coincidences also match a credible, verifiable story that puts Lynda Carter exactly in the right place at the right time. Uh, no, those stars don't all line up so easily.

I would love to run this past the world-class fakers over at freefakers.com but have never got around to it. After judging hundreds of contests, they are the experts at analyzing lighting angles and anatomy (does the neck muscle really go there?).

You know, if their breasts were not so similar, there would be no issue.

Certainly can't prove it's her. But Occam's Razor says it's her.

[xenontrioxide]

Sorry if this has idea has been posed before, but what if the Colleen Camp picture is the fake and topless Lynda is real? Huh?

[moonspellsmoon]

Well, I had a long post here which turned out to break thumbnail rules. These are now 180 pix thumbnails per the host. I don't have the patience to reconstruct all of it.

Here is the Expose article in full.





Detailed scans at http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y59VGYGF

The article has the same holes in the story. It's the wrong photo, etc. It's not convincing.

Nothing really changes on the analysis of the right place and the right time, etc.

I think that I can tell which Lynda Carter photos are L-R reversed because her upper lip is a little higher on her right, and her left nostril is a wee bit bigger and longer - from looking through screen caps of TV, which aren't L-R reversed because there is print on screen.

Looked at a lot of photos. Ms. Carter has a faint mole just below the middle of her left clavicle. And a faint mole on her chest above her right breast. Sometimes there is makeup over this, I expect.

The faint mole's mollection:



The Expose full size gatefold appears to be left-right reversed (the smaller one in the article is not). And the mole on her chest above her right breast appears to be in the correct place, faint, as usual. So I think the mole evidence is a plus, not a minus.

With everything added up, seems more likely that Expose got ahold of the photo and wanted a way to publish it. Call it a fake. But I really still don't know. I think the neck anatomy is the final point. I need to look at some necks, but a proper artist should know.

The basic pic scanned and merged, lower res than the megaupload. Needs to have the fold lines and holes fixed.

[Attila The Hun]

Originally Posted by Rubinski

Oh Lynda,
What a beauty.

I don't have the Exp0se Oct82 that was requested.
These are out of a H@rvey-Feb83.
They mentioned Lynda on the cover.
Inside, they said it was a scam. Probably so they wouldn't get sued.
Any interest in the text? I can post the full pages, if wanted. No clown noses.
They also printed some reader's responses in the following months.

From what I've seen and read, I think it might really be Lynda.
If it is a fake, I'm pretty sure it didn't come from that particular shot of Colleen Camp.

Wonder if Hef has the original slides. Might have been some different poses.
Pl@yb0y did print some other stills of Colleen when the movie came out.
Would those have been Lynda, if she had stayed in the movie?

Anyway, here are the scans.
Another printing of the Apocalypse Now centerfolds, and one of my attempts at retouching.
Kind of a small print in the mag, but I did what I could.
Wished I had that centerfold from the Expose.

Whether or not Lynda Carter posed nude, the images make it quite clear that they are not from the same shoot or the same person. The breasts are different sizes as are the stomaches, nails etc. There are too many differences for this to just be an image of Colleen Camp with Lynda's head stuck on.

[headmaster]

Great stuff moonspellsmoon. I've been meaning to buy that copy of Expose! for a while but the price was too high. Thanks for taking the time and trouble to scan and upload it (and for studying it so intently ). Much appreciated.

I agree that the evidence is pointing to it being genuine.

The head / neck / shoulder blade still looks a little unnatural to me though. One theory which hasn't been suggested yet is that this pic was faked using a model who wasn't Colleen Camp. It's possible that someone read the Pl@yboy article with Colleen claiming she'd replaced Lynda in AN, then decided to make a quick buck by hiring a model, taking some photos (using the Playboy article as a guide) then compositing Lynda's head on. They could then sell it with the backstory that it was Lynda's missing AN photo and use the Playboy article as backup. Only plausible explanation I can think of. That or it's real

By the way - can anyone tell if those are definitely her hands? Hands are usually a dead give away.

[moonspellsmoon]

- I don't like the chin-wattle area either for a 24 year old (this would have been May 1976). But it's really too messed up to make a call either way.
- The whole looks much more natural when the L-R is correct.
- One would have to do the mole search and comparison I did to feel the pendulum swinging. That is really the only new thing.
- I still don't think folks appreciate how hard it is to find a lighting, face angle, and body setup for a fake that enters 'is it real or not' ranks. Admittedly, if you have them sitting in front of you it is straightforward. Otherwise I can compare whole folders of headshots to whole folders of bodyshots and not find a match for a quality fake. If I have a headshot that I am committed to, it can be hundreds of images to compare. Example, I have this recently available HQ



(I'm sure anyone reading this thread will like it) and I haven't yet made a fake with it because searching hundreds, maybe a thousand brunette images in my giant hard disk of faking resources I can't find a good match for the angles, harsh studio lighting, body anatomy, hot spots, etc. etc., etc. It is ...non-trivial.

Dunno. I don't think I can commit. I don't buy the quick buck theory. It seems to be some of the same studio props (same shirt, same chair). Maybe it is a Lynda Carter headshot airbrushed onto different Lynda Carter image from the same session. That would explain quite a bit and make it a do-able fake, and good enough for a movie prop, with old-fashioned resources. Just cut it near the neck then airbrush the join.

Now I am going to look in my giant folder of Lynda Carter pictures to see if there are any similar neck positions. Just for posterity, here's the biggest Colleen Camp centerfold scan I found.

[serio02]

You can have a pretty good idea of Lynda´s boobs from several photos from a party/event in Hollywood of her WW´s years. She wore a transparent black top and she went accompanied with Waggoner. Like this:
http://www.wonderland-site.com/html/...ts/eve0237.htm
I could find several shots on ebay, but now I don´t see any. And don´t forget Bobbie Joe too.

[henri33]

there is alot of VERY smart people debating a pair of tits! pardon my english