Questions for our American friends

[bombermouse]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Its' called "The Paranoid Style in American Politics" -- its a short read and while it was written about the Goldwater campaign (1964), you'll recognize all the elements today, online here

https://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/

Thanks, I'll give it a look.

[DTravel]

Originally Posted by bigtrain45

The reason 3rd parties have never fully taken hold in the US is that they all start with a Presidential candidate trying to make a dent against the two entrenched parties. In order for a third party to sustain itself, it needs local and national candidates in all 50 states, a massive organizational undertaking.
As to a centrist party in the US, that's the Democrats. The Republicans have driven themselves so far to the right with their alliances with racists, pseud-christian hypocrites, xenophobes, sexists, etc. that they have ceded the center to the Dems by default.

There are elements of the Democratic Party that are pulling as hard as they can to steer the Party to the far left.

[hoss]

Originally Posted by DTravel

There are elements of the Democratic Party that are pulling as hard as they can to steer the Party to the far left.

US far left being what is middle of the road in Europe.

[DTravel]

Originally Posted by hoss

US far left being what is middle of the road in Europe.

That being a different discussion that I will politely avoid.

[laberbacke]

Originally Posted by mizlaplan

I just watched a very interesting interview on BBCs HardTalk with James Stavridis.
He came across very well, intelligent, optimistic, but realistic.
One point he made was that he thought, given the current state of US politics, that the time was right for a more centralist party to emerge, which could gather support from the more moderate parts of the Republican and Democrats parties.
Three party politics in the US?
Just wondered what our US members thought.

The first past the post / winner takes all voting system in the US won't allow for powerful third parties as a permanent parliamentary presence.

Let's say the Republicans were to split fifty fifty into Trumpists and old school conservatives - they'd be wiped out by the Democrats on all levels of government. Even in deep south states, a 30 (Trumpists) - 30 (vintage GOP) - 40 (Democrats) split would result in handy Democratic wins across the board, where the Democrats previously had no chance at winning.

This is a major reason why establishment Republicans roll over for Donald Trump all the time, they are afraid - with good reason - that he would split the party and destroy Republican election prospects for a generation.

The more pertinent problem to me is not the two party system per se, but what happened to the Republican Party. The Democrats are still a big tent party that needs to draw support from many peer groups, they haven't changed much in that respect in the last fifty years. Yet the Republicans, over time, have focused more and more on a constituency that once was just one among many: White people, particularly older white people, and older white males.

A more conventional conservative party could draw in a sizable number of blacks and latinos, who are fairly conservative when it comes to their beliefs about religion and lifestyle issues. The focus on white evangelicals in recent decades has left most of these voters with the choice to vote Democratic, or not vote at all.

Here's a GOP primary debate between candidates George Bush Sr. and Ronald Reagan in comparison. Open the border both ways? Not even a mainstream Democrat like Joe Biden could get away with that today without being crucified in the rust belt, and any Republican who'd propose what was but common sense and good policy for Republicans 40 years ago would be dead politically.

This goes to show how far the country has veered to the right on a lot of issues. A center-right President like Barack Obama, who deported more people than all of his predecessors from George Washington to Bill Clinton combined, is actually considered a "loonie leftist" and open border activist by half the country.

How did it come to this?

That's the question Americans should ask. Because magically conjuring a new party out of thin air and making it compete against a hostile voting system won't solve the underlying issues.

[cicciobuki]

I was just watching a Youtube video about the American "Satanic Panic" in the 80ies, and as a sober secular Western European kid i remember being amazed on how a country like America could be this ... insane and interesting at the same time. How could first-world people believe that nonsense? It was so intriguing and yet so confusing!
(the video i watched even mentioned smurfs - who are honorary Belgians - were viewed as the undead )

So my question, how did you American members experience this Satanic Panic when growing up? Did it affect your lives in any way? Did you believe in it or did you just think it was nonsense?

[Gasket the Cat]

Originally Posted by cicciobuki

I was just watching a Youtube video about the American "Satanic Panic" in the 80ies, and as a sober secular Western European kid i remember being amazed on how a country like America could be this ... insane and interesting at the same time. How could first-world people believe that nonsense? It was so intriguing and yet so confusing!
(the video i watched even mentioned smurfs - who are honorary Belgians - were viewed as the undead )

So my question, how did you American members experience this Satanic Panic when growing up? Did it affect your lives in any way? Did you believe in it or did you just think it was nonsense?

No non-Americans can ever quite grasp it seems, how the US can be so so secular while the same society can at the exact same time, be so so religiously fundamental and credulous about religious myths and symbolism.

And personally I have no nowledge of Satanic Panic, whatsoever unless you narrow it down to specifics. I had never heard the term until just now.

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by Gasket the Cat

No non-Americans can ever quite grasp it seems, how the US can be so so secular while the same society can at the exact same time, be so so religiously fundamental and credulous about religious myths and symbolism.

And personally I have no nowledge of Satanic Panic, whatsoever unless you narrow it down to specifics. I had never heard the term until just now.

Well, you may have heard of people playing records backwards to look for hidden messages (think Beatles and Judas Priest), or considering Dungeons and Dragons as evil.

[DTravel]

Originally Posted by cicciobuki

Well, you may have heard of people playing records backwards to look for hidden messages (think Beatles and Judas Priest), or considering Dungeons and Dragons as evil.

As a Dungeons and Dragons player at the time, the only effect it had on my life was giving me another group of idiots to laugh at.

[Gasket the Cat]

Originally Posted by cicciobuki

Well, you may have heard of people playing records backwards to look for hidden messages (think Beatles and Judas Priest), or considering Dungeons and Dragons as evil.

Ah yes!!

Funny you mention the Beatles.
I was thinking of The Beatles and John's "Bigger than God" comment in 1966, while I was trying to think of some Satanic Panic examples I was aware of.

The Beatles and America's love-hate relationship with them for 50 years illustrates exactly the dichotomy or schizophrenia of the American psyche.

In the rest of the civilized world John's comment was so innocuous to not even bother with a mention, but..........in the US in 1966 it was the Apocalypse. Really!