The NFL and NBA thread

[keefriff]

Originally Posted by qwerty007

Good morning everyone!

Up early and watching the first of the mountain stages in the Pyrenees on the Tour de France. It's all about Scleck and Contador.

Keefriff (Ragnar ) you are correct. If Flacco has a good year, it'll be along year for Pittsburgh...(sigh). But, I think Steelers made a great move to go out and trade for Leftwich AND to reacquire Bryant McFadden.

The good news is that a) Dick LeBeau is still coaching the defense AND Troy Polamalu s back. Should be an interesting year.

Why have I mentioned 'selfish me'?

I am going to post an early question of the day (QOTD), even though I said we would rotate...but pls - whoever wants to; Go right ahead and post another.

My QOTD:

The Team: Washington Redskins

The Player: Albert Haynesworth

The Deal: He got something like $40 million up front on a $100 million deal. He is now staying away from the team because Mike Shanahan wants to play a 3-4 defense, instead of a 4-3; which is what he wants to play.

Is there ANYWAY you can defend this kind of action, or should he be punished by being forced to watch Richard Simmons work out videos all day long?

Have at it, NFL fans...

Just got back from walking Leo my dog. It frickin' rained to beat the band last night. Tornados and real severe weather to my north. Not good.

Washington Redskins: I used to like them when Joe Gibbs was the coach back in the 80's but not much to like since then. Can't stand their owner. I think he is a complete meddler and has no clue how to build a team. With the addition of McNabb they will be better but I still don't see them finishing ahead of Dallas, NYG or Philly.

Albert Haynesworth. No excuse for what he has done. He signed one of the biggest deals ever and he has behaved like a petulant child. He has been a complete tool in this situation. I know they wanted to trade him but no one was willing to take on his contract. Washington always seems to do a horrible job with respect to free agents. Think Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, Randall El Amin, etc etc etc.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by qwerty007

The Player: Albert Haynesworth

The Deal: He got something like $40 million up front on a $100 million deal. He is now staying away from the team because Mike Shanahan wants to play a 3-4 defense, instead of a 4-3; which is what he wants to play.

Is there ANYWAY you can defend this kind of action, or should he be punished by being forced to watch Richard Simmons work out videos all day long?

Is this the real deal? I only ask because it seems such an egregious transgression. I know very little about NFL but I think I can comment on that one because stuff like this happens all the time in (ahem) soccer and in cricket. This is an overweening ego throwing it's toys out of the pram. In particular, the man is a player in team sport, not even the team captain I gather. The tactics are decided by the coach and by the captain: his job as a team player is to show he is skillful enough to implement those tactics effectively and to support his teammates as well as he can. But I rather suspect Albert Haynesworth isn't a team player, based on your info.

My punishment would be to deny him admission to either the stadium or even the training ground. I would use his contract to prevent him playing for anyone else while it is current. I would refuse all his phone calls except via the club's legal representatives, and I would forbid all the other team members to have any social contact with him at all. I might relent and let him train, practice and compete on equal terms for team selection only if he publicly apologises to the coach and agrees to abide by the rules of a team sport.

Otherwise I would pay him until his contract expires and then pretend he doesn't exist. I would also discreetly call in favours if I am owed any to try to make it as hard as I can for him to find a new club once he becomes a free agent. Hopefully by then his lack of match practice will count against him on the transfer market.

This telling the coach the terms on which he will condescend to play for the team is one of the Deadly Sins in any sport.

[keefriff]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Is this the real deal? I only ask because it seems such an egregious transgression. I know very little about NFL but I think I can comment on that one because stuff like this happens all the time in (ahem) soccer and in cricket. This is an overweening ego throwing it's toys out of the pram. In particular, the man is a player in team sport, not even the team captain I gather. The tactics are decided by the coach and by the captain: his job as a team player is to show he is skillful enough to implement those tactics effectively and to support his teammates as well as he can. But I rather suspect Albert Haynesworth isn't a team player, based on your info.

My punishment would be to deny him admission to either the stadium or even the training ground. I would use his contract to prevent him playing for anyone else while it is current. I would refuse all his phone calls except via the club's legal representatives, and I would forbid all the other team members to have any social contact with him at all. I might relent and let him train, practice and compete on equal terms for team selection only if he publicly apologises to the coach and agrees to abide by the rules of a team sport.

Otherwise I would pay him until his contract expires and then pretend he doesn't exist. I would also discreetly call in favours if I am owed any to try to make it as hard as I can for him to find a new club once he becomes a free agent. Hopefully by then his lack of match practice will count against him on the transfer market.

This telling the coach the terms on which he will condescend to play for the team is one of the Deadly Sins in any sport.

Good to see you here Scoundrel! I have one questions for you before I
respond to your post. What the heck is a pram?!!?

You are right on the mark with your post. Let me give you a little background. Haynesworth was signed by the Washington Redskins (yes, that name is correct) before the 2009 season to a 7 year 100 million contract of which approx. 42 million is guaranteed after he became a free agent when his contract had expired with another team. He went to Washington last year when they had a different coaching staff that ran a different defensive scheme. They had another miserable season and there coaching staff was fired and a new regime was brought in. Mike Shanahan was named Head Coach of Wash. He is a well respected veteran coach who had guided the Denver Broncos to two Super Bowl appearences and victories in the late 90's early 2000's. He implemented a change in the defensive scheme and Haynesworth, being the idiot that he is, objected to playing in that scheme because it wasn't suited to his particular "talents". Completely unacceptable reaction by him and I bet that nearly 100% of NFL fans feel the same way. Washington knew that he was unhappy and tried to trade him. There were no takers for obvious reasons most of all his crappy attitude. Washington went to him and said that they tried to trade him to no avail and reiterated to him that he was due a substantial chunk of money by a certain date and if he didn't show up to practice they would make every attemt to withhold that money. He promised Wash. that he would make all the practices and mandatory minicamp. They paid him his bonus after hearing his reassurances about attending all necessary events. Then when minicamp opens, he still holds out with the same complaints that he previously had. Washington can only fine him $20,000 for each missed practice as mandated by the collective bargaining agreement (CBA) between the NFL and the players union. So they fine him this money, which is nothing for a guy earning approx 15 million a year, and he keeps skipping camp. The team takes the hard stance, as they should, and keeps fining him for each missed practice. Meanwhile the media is lambasting Haynesworth for his petulant behavior. He eventually comes to his senses and says he will report to the next round of practices. Washington accepts him back because they have little choice after paying him the huge chunk of money he was due prior to minicamp starting. Because of the CBA, the Redskins have a limited amount of options in terms of punishment. Fines are about the only recourse that they have. They can release him from his contract, no contracts are guaranteed in the NFL, but after paying him the huge bonus I spoke of earlier they had to let him come back to camp if only for financial reasons. The guy is a good player but a grade one buffoon and certainly not a team player. He will play this year w/ Washington but I would wager a pretty strong bet that he is released from his contract at the end of this season. That means he will be free to sign with another team but unlike Washington, which has a history of over paying for marginal players, no team will give him a contract that comes close to what he currently has. Haynesworth represents the worst of American football. Selfish, petulant, entitled and just plain disrespectful. He will be remembered by the league and it's fans for this kind of behavior no matter what he accomplishes in the future.

[qwerty007]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Is this the real deal? I only ask because it seems such an egregious transgression. I know very little about NFL but I think I can comment on that one because stuff like this happens all the time in (ahem) soccer and in cricket. This is an overweening ego throwing it's toys out of the pram. In particular, the man is a player in team sport, not even the team captain I gather. The tactics are decided by the coach and by the captain: his job as a team player is to show he is skillful enough to implement those tactics effectively and to support his teammates as well as he can. But I rather suspect Albert Haynesworth isn't a team player, based on your info.

My punishment would be to deny him admission to either the stadium or even the training ground. I would use his contract to prevent him playing for anyone else while it is current. I would refuse all his phone calls except via the club's legal representatives, and I would forbid all the other team members to have any social contact with him at all. I might relent and let him train, practice and compete on equal terms for team selection only if he publicly apologises to the coach and agrees to abide by the rules of a team sport.

Otherwise I would pay him until his contract expires and then pretend he doesn't exist. I would also discreetly call in favours if I am owed any to try to make it as hard as I can for him to find a new club once he becomes a free agent. Hopefully by then his lack of match practice will count against him on the transfer market.

This telling the coach the terms on which he will condescend to play for the team is one of the Deadly Sins in any sport.

First off - kudos to Keefriff, very detailed explanation. Ragnar - a pram, is a baby carriage...a stroller.

Scoundrel - the problem with the whole scenario is that they gave him $32 million up front and if I'm not mistaken, have only gotten 1 year of service from him.

An unrestricted free agent in the 2009 offseason, Haynesworth signed a seven-year, $100 million contract with the Washington Redskins on the first day of free agency, February 27, 2009.[17] The deal is expected to pay Haynesworth $32 million in the first 13 months,[1] includes $41 million guaranteed and could reach $115 million if all incentives are met

So if he plays the entire 7 yrs, he'll average about $15 mil, give or take.

But if they cut/trade him NOW, they have essentially paid him $32 million for a season and will owe him another $10 (if cut)...

Some more; He is an immensely talented player, but a head case. People know that and his unhappiness is now well documented and in the public eye. Had he kept it quiet and handled it in house, MAYBE he could have been traded (along with that albatross of a contract)...MAYBE

But now...it's like he's a leper.

If you feel so inclined, you can have a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...all_formations

About halfway down the page, are defensive formations. First listed is the 4-3 and then a little further the 3-4. This page could explain it better than I ever could.

Hope you don't fall asleep reading

[grossnex]

Originally Posted by keefriff

Just got back from walking Leo my dog. It frickin' rained to beat the band last night. Tornados and real severe weather to my north. Not good.

Washington Redskins: I used to like them when Joe Gibbs was the coach back in the 80's but not much to like since then. Can't stand their owner. I think he is a complete meddler and has no clue how to build a team. With the addition of McNabb they will be better but I still don't see them finishing ahead of Dallas, NYG or Philly.

Albert Haynesworth. No excuse for what he has done. He signed one of the biggest deals ever and he has behaved like a petulant child. He has been a complete tool in this situation. I know they wanted to trade him but no one was willing to take on his contract. Washington always seems to do a horrible job with respect to free agents. Think Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, Randall El Amin, etc etc etc.

Thanks keefriff. I love hearing local expressions & I've tried to add a few NJ & NY expressions myself. When it "rained to the beat of the band" was that band Metallica? Then that's bad. If it were U2, that sounds like it was a light drizzle `

I have to agree with the Majority on Albert Haynesworth. I just don't see why the man was given that type of contract in the 1st place. The 'Skins have been throwing money around like a drunken sailor for the better part of the last 10 years. They even brought Joe Gibbs back at a hefty price to try & fix the franchise & that turned into a debacle. The NFL was an entirely different game when Gibbs won his championships & how long can a man be involved in NASCAR before he becomes irrelevant in NFL? Don't even get me started on them bringing in Steve Spurrier from the NCAA to coach these guys. I'm not complaining - it worked out pretty well for my G-Men.

But, back to Haynesworth. He's a defensive tackle, which means he plays in the center of the defensive line. In a 4-3 scheme there are the 2 defensive ends as well as 2 defensive tackles to plug up the middle of the line. Those 4 players are backed up by 3 linebackers that play behind them. In a 3-4 scheme, there are still 2 defensive ends on the line but only 1 defensive tackle. These guys are backed up by 4 linebackers that play behind them (that was for you scoundrel).

The way I see it, Haynesworth knows his level of play is going to greatly diminish if he gets no help plugging up the middle of the line. That's where I think all of this nonsense began. Players hold out & don't report to training camp all the time. But, those are usually contract issues. This 1 situation is unique in that he lied to the 'Skins about reporting to camp (just to get his paycheck) & still carries on like a spoiled child. What can the 'Skins really do about it though? They tried to trade him & nobody wanted him with that contract.

At a certain point, this becomes an issue for the NFL front office. We can't have situations where a player is deciding what kind of schemes he's to be utilized. Mike Shanahan has 2 Super Bowl rings & you don't disrespect a Head Coach with that kind of resume before you've even taken the field to practice. Maybe Goodell should focus on the downright fraud that was committed by this guy instead of going after Big Ben.

[scoundrel]

Yes: I am an asshole.



Thanks for the precis of Haynesworth's back history keefriff and qwerty (btw a pram is a little buggy I use to wheel the word "soccer" around in). I gather the man's contract runs until 2016. I would lock him out one day for every day he spends away from training camp etc and I would try hard to keep the rest of the squad on-side about shunning all social contact with him. In the UK we call this "sending X to Coventry", Hayneworth being the X in question. Do you use any similar expression? Coventry is simply a random place where the despised one is notionally exiled. We shun the person and starve him/her of all social connection to the group, usually for a social crime against the whole group. The person has to either make amends to the group or leave for good.

Incidentally, re the $20,000 fines, I would hold a press conference every time and donate the fine to a charity Hayneworth especially dislikes, live on camera, explaining precisely what practise he missed and when and hopefully getting a representative of the charity to thank Haynesworth for the money. If there is no financial lever to use on the man, then work on his vanity and ego by publicly humiliating him for his behaviour.

Having said all this, I have got off my lazy arse and done a spot of my own research. It's no excuse at all for Haynesworth but I have discovered that the Washington Redskins (love the name) allegedly have form for signing crap players with serious personality disorders, sometimes players they don't even need, for far too much money and then being surprised when these crap players bite the hand that feeds them. Presumably the cost of all this incompetence is passed on to the fans in inflated ticket prices.

Fool me once, damn you. Fool me twice...

[qwerty007]

Jumping back to the NBA, I just watched a report that Lebron James is buying a mansion in Coral Gables Florida for $50 million. Taxes alone are $1 million a year, utilities are $150k.

Smart decision? This considering he'll probably have trouble getting fair market value for his home in Ohio...

[tygrkhat40]

Originally Posted by keefriff

Hey Tygrhkat, how are your Bills going to be this season? What's the deal w/ Marshawn Lynch? Is he done for them?

The best answer I have is...I don't know. Both questions. It's been very quiet from One Bills Drive, with the exception of the players liking what Coach Gailey's brought to the table. Still not sure what's going to happen with Lynch, they're implementing a 3-4 D, can one of the QB's step up and take the reins of the offense, can the offense even look like a passable NFL unit...so many questions. But everyone is ignoring the Bills, some even saying they're the worst team in the conference, even worse than Cleveland. OK, the Bills haven't beaten the Browns in 3 years, but we've had a better record in each of those years. And at this point, I'd rather have Edwards, Fitzpatrick and Brohm over Jake Delhomme.

And qwerty, I'm one Sabres fan who would welcome a team in Hamilton. It would work and not hurt the Sabres or Leafs. In fact, althought there is some resistance from the Sabres about a team in Hamilton, I still believe that the Leafs are the bigger stumbling block.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by qwerty007

Jumping back to the NBA, I just watched a report that Lebron James is buying a mansion in Coral Gables Florida for $50 million. Taxes alone are $1 million a year, utilities are $150k.

Smart decision? This considering he'll probably have trouble getting fair market value for his home in Ohio...

No, it's a silly decision. He's spending his earning as though he were heir to a trust fund and the money were a continuing supply. How many seasons has he got in the ranks of the top money earners? How many dependents does he have to support? It must be an awful lot of house, even in Dade County, Florida, if it's worth $50 million. How much house does he actually need, even given his celebrity status, which presumably comes with security concerns. But perhaps he is planning to sell it and buy something less ostentatious when he retires.

Coral Gables seems to be quite an affluent and leafy suburb, conveniently located for going to work at the Miami Dolphins ground however. His choice of area is logical.

[grossnex]

Originally Posted by qwerty007

Jumping back to the NBA, I just watched a report that Lebron James is buying a mansion in Coral Gables Florida for $50 million. Taxes alone are $1 million a year, utilities are $150k.

Smart decision? This considering he'll probably have trouble getting fair market value for his home in Ohio...

Sorry to leave you hanging off a cliff with that question Qwerty. Real life came calling . You seem about the same age as me Qwerty my brother (maybe a little bit older), so I have a question for you. It's completely off topic, but hell it's a porn forum so I'll try to make it somewhat relevant to the overall scheme of things. I'm going to be 35 in a few weeks & I've been spending some time with a 20 year old girl. Is it normal to feel like you've been run over by a bus after a night with a 20 year old when you're about 35? These porn guys in the movies make this crap look way too easy! I'm hurtin' for certain my brother!

LeBron James is crazy as far as I'm concerned. He's buying another mansion to live in before he can even sell the old 1? He's going to have a hard time selling that home. Cleveland doesn't exactly make the top 10 list of most desirable places to live in the US. You would have to make a ton of money to be able to afford a mansion anywhere, so they're going to have to try to attract a wealthy local. Drew Carey maybe? I can't think of any other celebrity who lives in the area that would want to live in "LeBron's House." There are celebrities like Jerry Seinfeld who have had problems selling their mansions in The Hamptons out on Long Island!

This is a problem I'll probably never have to worry about. Even if I had the money, I would be more interested in the land aspect of buying a house. My house would be modest, but it would be a quarter mile drive up to the house.