The First World War

[Cap'n Zippy]

"Black Jack" Pershing wanted the fresh American troops to totally decimated the Germans. He didn't want them to be afford the "easy" surrender they were afforded, he wanted them to surrender on their knees, thoroughly beaten. Otherwise, "we'll just be doing this again in twenty years."
He was almost exactly right.

[Mal Hombre]

As was Marshal Foch,He was only a few days out.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Zippy

"Black Jack" Pershing wanted the fresh American troops to totally decimate the Germans...

To decimate means to kill one man in ten. Didn't Pershing want to kill more than that?

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by palo5

My Alzheimers, dementia and alcohol-filled brain decided I should order the good-priced book (A$27,--) with an insane postage of $32,-- elsewhere

Someone should shoot me for stupidity, :

You could have been a WW1 general

[palo5]

Originally Posted by fleetwood77

You could have been a WW1 general

I am old, but not so old. 66 is not very old, you know. 66 is only old when you're 56 or 46 or younger

But it was horrible to pay A$32 for postage. You're right, it was too much

But I wanted the book, so I paid it

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by palo5

I am old, but not so old. 66 is not very old, you know. 66 is only old when you're 56 or 46 or younger

For God's sake don't tell BB how old you are - he gives me dog's abuse and I'm several years younger than you.

[tygrkhat40]

Originally Posted by palo5

To decimate means to kill one man in ten. Didn't Pershing want to kill more than that?

True, the definition of decimation is to kill one in ten, but in American English it has become a metaphor for total destruction.

[knobby109]

Originally Posted by tygrkhat40

True, the definition of decimation is to kill one in ten, but in American English it has become a metaphor for total destruction.

In that case what word do you use when you mean to deliberately kill one in ten? The "deci" part should give a tiny clue..........

[Ennath]

March 26, 1898
Germany The Reichstag passes Admiral Tirpitz’s First Navy Bill. Germany begins building a powerful fleet of battleships. Further bills will increase the size of the battle fleet, making the German Navy second in the world, trailing only Britain. To gain public support for such a program, an enemy at sea needs to be created. Anti-British sentiment grows in pro-naval circles. Britain responds to the building program by laying down more battleships of its own.

March 26, 1915
Western Front The French gain the summit of Hartmannsweilerkopf.
Eastern Front The Russian advance in the Carpathians continues. 2500 more prisoners are taken. Lupkow Pass falls.

March 26, 1916
Libya British aircraft wreck a Turkish base at Bir-el-Hassa.
Eastern Front The Russians continue to attack at Lake Naroch, with little success. By now the entire battle area has become a virtual lake. General Ragoza begins withdrawing troops.

March 26, 1917
Western Front The British take Lagnicourt, 6 miles northeast of Bapaume. The French repulse several attacks near St. Quentin.
Eastern Front The Russians are attacked at Baranovichi and forced back over the Shchara River.
Palestine Sir Archibald Murray, now headquartered at El Arish, has assigned Sir Charles Dobell, commander of the Eastern Force, the task of taking Gaza after first securing Wadi Ghazze, a ravine and water source 6 miles southeast of Gaza. Camel and cavalry units, grouped in a force known as the Desert Column, under Sir Philip Chetwode, spearhead the attack, along with units of 2 infantry divisions. Although the natural obstacles, including huge cactus hedges, are formidable, by the end of the day, the attack succeeds in forcing the Turks back into the city, which should fall readily the following day. But at their headquarters, Dobell and Chetwode misapprehend the real situation and order the mounted troops to withdraw to Wadi Ghazze. The withdrawal allows the desperate Turks a chance to reinforce the Gaza garrison.
Arabia After meeting with Abdullah and failing to persuade him to pursue more aggressive tactics, Lawrence himself leads an attack at Aba el Na’am on the Hejaz Railway. He and his men take 30 prisoners.

March 26, 1918
Western Front Hutier’s troops advance another 5 miles, Below’s another 6. British troops are driven from Albert and Bray. A gap at Colin camps is closed by elements of the New Zealand Division. South of the Somme, the Germans take Chaulnes, Roye, and Noyon.
Allied Command Allied leaders meet at Doullens, already menaced by the Germans. Milner, Poincaré, Clemenceau, and Generals Wilson, Haig, Petain, Foch, and a few others attend. When Haig enters, Petain whispers to Clemenceau “There is a man who will be obliged to capitulate in open field within a fortnight, and very lucky if we are not obliged to do the same.” It is clear to Clemenceau and Poincaré that the ever-pessimistic Petain is losing his nerve. As British troops retreat through the streets of the town, the conferees confirm Haig’s and Petain’s decision of the Somme River boundary, decide that Petain can free 24 divisions to bolster Haig, and agree that a unified command is needed. Foch is named Allied Commander in Chief. Wilson’s and Milner’s candidate, he is given authority to coordinate the actions of the Allied armies on the Western Front, working closely with generals in chief who are to supply him with “all necessary information.” Clemenceau snorts at Foch “Well, you’ve got what you wanted.” The general’s riposte – “A fine present. You give me a lost battle and tell me to win it.”
Russia The Soviet government grants the Czech Legion permission to travel across Siberia to Vladivostok, to which Tomas Masaryk is already en route. The Legion will board the trans-Siberian Railway for the journey.
Palestine British cavalry probes toward Amman.
Mesopotamia The British have sent cavalry and 3 armored cars secretly by night well around the Turkish positions at Khan Baghdadi to a site on the Aleppo Road 6 miles beyond the town. Marching upriver from Hit in the early morning darkness, the British main column attacks just after sunrise. Throughout the day, they relentlessly drive the Turks from their defensive positions, taking 1000 prisoners. As the retreating Turks move up the Aleppo Road, they encounter the British cavalry and another 1000 surrender as the rest flee.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by palo5

To decimate means to kill one man in ten. Didn't Pershing want to kill more than that?

Actually, this hints at a serious point. WW1 was a cultural turning point. In 1914, people believed uncritically in "glory". There is a little remembered but excellent early short play by George Bernard Shaw, written in 1912, shortly before Major Barbara, in which he presciently explores the delusions of the time. The play is called Arms and the Man. The key theme is the difference between what people thought war was like and what war actually is like.

For example: the heroine, Rayna Petkoff hears the news that her side, the Bulgarian Army, has trounced a Serbian invading force, broken it up and sent the remnants fleeing in panic. She is delighted and hopes they will wipe out the lot. But that night, a fleeing Serbian Army officer (a Swiss mercenary called Captain Blutschli) breaks into her bedroom and hides there, holding her at gunpoint to make her hide him. But he isn't what she expected; he is scrupulously gentlemanly (she thought she would at least have to make him look the other way); he is courteous and apologetic about his treatment of her, which he can only excuse because he is in a desperate situation; he is politely but firmly dismissive of the notion that his conduct is cowardly.

I am a soldier, Miss. It is my duty to live as long as I can.

Yet when it seems the game is up and the Bulgarian Army (Russian officers) are going to search Rayna's room, he draws his sword, no bullets left in the pistol actually, and prepares to fight to the death, first warning Rayna to block her ears and look away, so she won't have to remember. Rayna goes against her social conditioning and hides him behind the curtain, officially to save the life of the first Bulgarian soldier whom he will inevitably kill with the sword through the advantage of surprise; but really because she likes him and thinks he deserves to get away. The point being that it is easy to be bloodthirsty at a distance, but not so easy when it is going to happen right in front of you.

The other point Shaw made in his play is a point TE Lawrence repeatedly made in his excellent book, Seven Pillars of Wisdom, an account of the Arab revolt of 1916-18. Rayna's intended bridegroom, Captain Sergius Saranoff, committed a grave error and led a cavalry charge against the Serbian machine gun emplacements, in which battle Captain Bluntschli participated. The charge was successful only because the Serbian ammunition turned out to be defective. Saranoff basks in this success with mixed feelings; he feels a bit cheated because there was no actual victory of arms, the Serbs being forced to run for it. Bluntschli is scathing about the tactical naivity of a cavalry charge against a machine gun position, but wonders wistfully if the Bulgarian cavalry had been tipped off; if they were, he would frankly admire the excellence of their tactics. Rayna is horrified by Bluntschli's attitude; she would think it disgraceful to be only willing to charge if the enemy cannot fight, whereas Bluntschli thinks that's just common sense.

Bluntschli is clearly right. Saranoff didn't kill that many Serbs; his success is that he broke their formation and forced them to leave his country. The number killed is not and never was the point of a battle; success is measured by who has the ground when it is all over, and the fewer men killed, the greater the success. TE Lawrence was clear that even a Turkish life was worth something, and merely killing Turkish soldiers was pointless. Defeating them and taking the ground was the object; provided this was achieved, Lawrence would just as soon have prisoners as have corpses (though he was not in favour of them escaping to fight him again another day). Lawrence did not believe in "glory" at all. Like Shaw's captain Bluntschli, Lawrence believed in getting the job done.