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Old 02-14-2013, 04:34 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by scoundrel View Post
The existence of other political parties can pose a challenge. Ralph Nader ran for the Green Party, supposedly only in non-swing states and to publicise the environmentalist case. But despite promising not to be a spoiler, he ran in Florida and polled over 97,000 votes. The story of the hanging chads is now part of our folklore; but Nader's contention that his 97,000 votes did not skew the poll against Al Gore and in favour of George W Bush seems awfully thin to me. I can't see many Republicans being swayed by the Green candidate. I think tree-hugging and saving the whales is more of a Democrat thing. No matter what your heart says, tactics enter into voting and you do need to think who it is you want to keep out and how your vote might let them in.
Ironically - I think the best thing that could happen to the US would be a third party candidate. I personally like Ron Paul - he wants to get the armies out of entanglements and focus on fixing the States, taking care of it's people.

I know he's a Repub - but I think he would do a good job.
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Old 02-14-2013, 05:59 PM   #72
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Default On a side note

There have been many points of view presented here, with a very passionate theme to it. We often like to label things and people; "He's a socialist Dem" "He's a cracker Repub"

But at the end of the day, I bet you we are closer than we might like to admit. Perhaps it might be time to find out where people stand on issues, so that we can look at each other and say "Hey - we agree on that" as opposed to "I dislike them because they think that way"

Nothing is ever black and white - I'm sure there is a lot of common ground between us. In a perfect world...


CRIME


I think that we should be tough on crime, both blue collar and white collar. Corporate jackals shouldn't get the white glove treatment at spa resort prisons.

SEXUALITY

Government has no place in our bedrooms. Two guys wanna get married, it's no skin off my nose. If churches don't want to perform ceremonies, they shouldn't have to. Civil union at the courthouse should be fine. Let them have all the entanglements (like divorce ) just like straight people do.

MILITARY

Time to stop funding incursions into other countries and corporate defense projects that do nothing. Yes - have a professionally well trained military, but a trillion a year is way too much.

EDUCATION

You need to the improve education of children and allow people cheap (if not free) access to higher education. This is key...

DRUGS

It's obvious of the need to decriminalize marijuana. In my experience the worse case scenario of being around a pot smoker is that they tell you they love you, eat the hell out of your fridge and then pass out blissfully in the guest bedroom. I have had far more trouble with drinkers. Coke and heroin (and the like) should remain banned.

GUNS

There is a thread here, with a great debate going on. I think it's time to join the other civilized nations around the world.

MEDICARE

Doctors, drug companies and insurance firms have run amok, profiting off the suffering of people. Medicare works around the world - it isn't perfect, but you won't go bankrupt because you're sick.

EXPLORATION


Defense contractors can stop profiting off of killing others, by being paid to think up technologies to get us to Mars and beyond. Who knows, they may discover a way to run cars on seawater, along the way....

IMMIGRATION

At the end of the day, we are all immigrants (save the aboriginals, whose land we stole). The Mexicans who live in the States illegally do provide a huge lift to the economy, as there are tons of jobs out there that only they are willing to perform. I'm not sure what the answer is, but they are coming to the greener pastures of America, just as our relatives did, because of dire circumstances in their country. Some are good, some are bad - but it's like that everywhere.

POLITICS

Things are not working in Washington - and it's the small guy who is getting it in the neck. They are playing around with peoples lives and live in an insulated world. We truly have a scenario where the "Kings" run things and we are all peasants...

Work together, goddamit!!



Please feel free to add any subjects you think are important to you and what you think of my opinions.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:06 PM   #73
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Yeah the Dems took it on the chin with that one. In all fairness however the reason we had Clinton as a president probably has a lot to do with Ross Perot running as a 3rd party candidate back in '92. Given his background and his rhetoric I didn't see Ross stealing too many democratic votes from Clinton.
Polls at the time showed that Ross Perot pulled almost equally from both parties. So even if he hadn't run, Clinton would have still won election.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:28 PM   #74
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There have been many points of view presented here, with a very passionate theme to it. We often like to label things and people; "He's a socialist Dem" "He's a cracker Repub"

But at the end of the day, I bet you we are closer than we might like to admit. Perhaps it might be time to find out where people stand on issues, so that we can look at each other and say "Hey - we agree on that" as opposed to "I dislike them because they think that way"

Nothing is ever black and white - I'm sure there is a lot of common ground between us. In a perfect world...




MEDICARE

Doctors, drug companies and insurance firms have run amok, profiting off the suffering of people. Medicare works around the world - it isn't perfect, but you won't go bankrupt because you're sick.





Please feel free to add any subjects you think are important to you and what you think of my opinions.
Was having breakfast this morning at a restaurant and came across this story of a Quebec woman who went on vacation in California and lacerated her hand. She didn't purchase insurance prior to leaving and needed medical care.

Total cost of a visit to the hospital: $27,000 USD

Yes, she was a foreigner - but this would have cost her ZERO in Canada. While there is some sort of coverage in the US now, a lot of people shill have co-pays and other fees which get charged.

(On a side note - apparently she would have been covered with Blue Cross for about $70 or so...)


http://www.journaldemontreal.com/201...autostart=true
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:00 AM   #75
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The real question is who would be desirous of saving the Republican party?

OK, let's say the Republican party reforms itself to improve public relations and its public image. The Republican party is no longer the party of gun people, Christians, and the uneducated (you know who you are... you are the bachelor degrees who think wikipedia is good source material), then what?
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:24 AM   #76
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From an European point of view,
the Democrat Party appears mainly on the right as on the liberal side. Not to mention what's happened on the left.

The Republicans would find themselves on the right spectrum to the fascist right wing. Yes, I being serious with my opinion about the fascist right wing. But mainly they are giving the impression of the far right. Sorry, the explanation would burst the limits of this post.

That might be a due to the image of the US-society (I cannot know in all details), their problems in the last about 20 years.

What I'm going to say: there are more marginal differences between those US parties, as the US citizens might discern - from an European point of view.

Admitted, that some of the European Parties (German Social Democratic Party, English New Labor) followed (neo-) liberal trend too.

EDIT: One has to difference the parties - from the actual presidential candidates.
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:59 PM   #77
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The real question is who would be desirous of saving the Republican party?

OK, let's say the Republican party reforms itself to improve public relations and its public image. The Republican party is no longer the party of gun people, Christians, and the uneducated (you know who you are... you are the bachelor degrees who think wikipedia is good source material), then what?
A healthy democracy needs both viable choices at the ballot box and a rational political discourse. If the Republicans had been able to give the American people a decent offer, the Obama administration would have been in serious trouble and that would not have been a bad thing. The risk now is that if the Democrats start to believe that the Republicans are unelectable, the Democrats will start to abuse their power. The Republicans have a responsibility to the broader electorate to put forward an electable candidate in 2016.

But I would point out that, for all his faults, candidate Romney played a rotten hand skilfully and did give the Obama camp a serious fright. Mr Romney was fatally undermined by his party; it was his party which was rejected by the electorate. Todd Akin delivered a timely reminder of how offensively misogynist and extreme mainstream Republican positions on abortion truly are. For such people to exercise legislative power over women was a very disturbing prospect to a lot of male Republican supporters.

In particular it drew attention to Paul Ryan and his voting record in support of really hardline anti-abortion bills in Congress, designed to pander to the most mean-spirited religious bigots in the Republican hinterland. I was struck by the dignity and self-discipline of many young Republican supporters when absorbing the scale of their defeat. I was also struck by the way in which so many of them identified social conservatism, religious bias and abortion as issues which had cost them a lot of support. Mr Ryan was not an asset to Mr Romney in the search for independent and centre ground support. Like Sarah Palin before him, he was there as a sop to the reactionary right wing; but like Ms Palin he sent a bad message to the rest of the voters about what a Romney presidency might be like.

This is the problem the Republicans have got. They select candidates who preach to their choir rather than candidates who might win support outside the door of their increasingly narrow church. Those young college and graduate aged Republicans who were gently discussing what went wrong in 2012 may go on to ask themselves if this party represents them anymore anyway. They might reconsider their allegiance.
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:22 PM   #78
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A healthy democracy needs both viable choices at the ballot box and a rational political discourse. If the Republicans had been able to give the American people a decent offer, the Obama administration would have been in serious trouble and that would not have been a bad thing. The risk now is that if the Democrats start to believe that the Republicans are unelectable, the Democrats will start to abuse their power. The Republicans have a responsibility to the broader electorate to put forward an electable candidate in 2016.

But I would point out that, for all his faults, candidate Romney played a rotten hand skilfully and did give the Obama camp a serious fright. Mr Romney was fatally undermined by his party; it was his party which was rejected by the electorate. Todd Akin delivered a timely reminder of how offensively misogynist and extreme mainstream Republican positions on abortion truly are. For such people to exercise legislative power over women was a very disturbing prospect to a lot of male Republican supporters.

In particular it drew attention to Paul Ryan and his voting record in support of really hardline anti-abortion bills in Congress, designed to pander to the most mean-spirited religious bigots in the Republican hinterland. I was struck by the dignity and self-discipline of many young Republican supporters when absorbing the scale of their defeat. I was also struck by the way in which so many of them identified social conservatism, religious bias and abortion as issues which had cost them a lot of support. Mr Ryan was not an asset to Mr Romney in the search for independent and centre ground support. Like Sarah Palin before him, he was there as a sop to the reactionary right wing; but like Ms Palin he sent a bad message to the rest of the voters about what a Romney presidency might be like.

This is the problem the Republicans have got. They select candidates who preach to their choir rather than candidates who might win support outside the door of their increasingly narrow church. Those young college and graduate aged Republicans who were gently discussing what went wrong in 2012 may go on to ask themselves if this party represents them anymore anyway. They might reconsider their allegiance.
A lot of the people sounding the death knell of the Republican party are forgetting that most Americans are probably slightly conservative by nature. Another way to read the last election was a spoon fed, grossly out of touch rich boy infamous for destroying working class jobs, out-sourcing Jobs to other countries, and basically being in the pocket of big business and special interest lobbies came dangerously close to winning the Presidential election of 2012. People forget that the same things were being said about liberals and democrats not too long ago. There was once a time when having a political opponent call you a liberal and having it stick was tantamount to being labeled a child molester in most voters eyes. What's fun now is that the shoe is somewhat on the other foot. Calling someone a conservative and having it stick is to paint a portrait of someone who tends to watch a lot of reality TV, needs help keeping their jaws from drooping, and tends to panic and whine about the end of the world at the drop of a hat. It flip flops about every other generation or so.
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:46 PM   #79
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A lot of the people sounding the death knell of the Republican party are forgetting that most Americans are probably slightly conservative by nature.
This is part of why the Republican failure is so strange. In the UK, Mr Obama himself would, at the most left, be in the Liberal Democrats, the British centre party; quite likely he would be a mainstream Conservative in the UK. Mr Ryan would probably be under surveillance by MI6 as a potential fascist subversive, and at the most left he would be in UKIP; and Mr Cheney would most likely be attending a Church-organised community daycare centre and drawing pictures and listening to music through headphones in line with his individually tailored psychiatric therapy program.

The existing Republican party has detached itself from its natural constituency and is in hock to the religious right, a group too small to get a Republican president elected and too divisive to reach out effectively to the conservative mainstream.
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:01 PM   #80
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This is part of why the Republican failure is so strange. In the UK, Mr Obama himself would, at the most left, be in the Liberal Democrats, the British centre party; quite likely he would be a maionstream Conservative in the UK. Mr Ryan woul probably be under surveillance by MI6 as a potential fascist subversive, and at the most left he would be in UKIP; and Mr Cheney would most likely be attending a Church-organised community daycare centre and drawing pictures and listening to music through headphones in line with his individually tailored psychiatric therapy program.

[...].
I like this description; as it is most congruent with mine.

For the conservative parties here ... many of the actual (Republican) candidates would have been sorted out as "unelectable" right from the start. No doubt, we are having such figures here too, if I think of "Le Pen" of France. In most other countries like mine they are falling at the "below 5 % clause" (= votes are lost).

Obama would be a center candidate (liberal) with a mainly conservative touch. But carefully, he is no real liberal, he is a neo (-new) liberal like he is in his financial policy.
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