Militant Islamists

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

I am not sure that is true. I don't think Russia or China are viewed as the "Great Satan" like the US and others are. Does Russia or China support Israel like the US did, at least before Obama? Don't think so.

China and Russia have far more Muslims than we do, and they both have active Islamic insurgencies -- in Russia, the Chechens, in China, the Uighurs.

China has perhaps 35 million Muslims, Russia -- and by that I'm not including the former Soviet Republics, just current Russia, probably 12 million. The Chechen story in Russia is well known, but the Chinese story is less so

Beijing, Kunming, Urumqi: between 2013 and 2014, these three cities located in the northeast, south and west of China were the targets of major and extremely violent terrorist attacks. In less than eight months, 72 people died and 356 were injured in separate attacks using suicide car bombs, bladed weapons, and/or explosives (see the interactive map below for more details). While the international media did cover these events, there is still little knowledge in the West about the changing face of terrorism in China. Going beyond widespread preconceptions, it is necessary to identify the facts of the threat, its geographical expansion and transnational linkages, and how this issue shapes Chinese politics.
see:
"The Terrorist Threat in China"
http://thediplomat.com/2015/05/the-t...reat-in-china/

[vinceprince]

The historian Tom Holland has bravely written and spoken extensively on this issue and believes only a Muslim 'reformation' is likely to prevent radicalisation.

"ISIS claims to be fighting on behalf of Islam but the fact is that its hateful ideology has nothing to do with Islam." A reassuring assertion, and one that almost everyone, including the vast majority of Muslims, would desperately like to believe – but wishful thinking, all the same. -

http://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2014/09/28/how-do-we-prevent-radicalisation-by-tom-holland

[Arturo2nd]

It doesn't seem that the West is communicating with the Islamic world in their terms. For example, I recently read that the Quran prescribes crucifixion for heretics. Perhaps we should encourage our Muslim allies to deal appropriately with those who abuse the faith. It might discourage ISIS recruiting if it were clear that there may be serious consequences for following false prophets.

The U.S. Marines and Navy ceased taking prisoners in the Pacific and rescuing Japanese sailors because experince showed those "surrendering" would have gernades or suddenly stab their rescuer. The point is that some folks interpret kindness as weakness. Isn't it time that we stopped expecting folks mired in the Middle Ages to adhere to our values and let them experience the full implication of theirs?

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

The U.S. Marines and Navy ceased taking prisoners in the Pacific and rescuing Japanese sailors because experince showed those "surrendering" would have gernades or suddenly stab their rescuer. The point is that some folks interpret kindness as weakness. Isn't it time that we stopped expecting folks mired in the Middle Ages to adhere to our values and let them experience the full implication of theirs?

In the same way that backed up by their reading of their religion militant Islamists openly use women and children as suicide bombers. If you see a woman and children coming towards you and she is in a full burka, how do you know that it is not a trap? Would you take a chance? If you have seen a friend killed by such a trap how would you react if you faced the same dilemma?
They view women and children differently to us in the West, in the UK we have strict laws (apart from a few twisted perverts) with regards to heterosexuals we would not consider sex or marriage with any female under 16 (the legal age for both consent and marriage) however Islam views it differently and it is open to wider interpretation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islami..._jurisprudence

If you choose to live in the West or anywhere else then you must abide by the laws of whatever country in which you live, if you don't like those laws then "jog on" and although the overwhelming majority do accept that fact a very vocal minority want their religion to take precedence over state laws. That way madness lies.

[SanteeFats]

Well Deep and HD I did say I was not sure. Good points from both of you. I still think Russia and/or China would be welcomed for a while, more free arms, and can you imagine China's response to attacks on their areas??
Why do I feel so? Well in Russia do they need any resource so bad as to fight the Islamist's, China too. There is one thing in the ME that most any country wantsand usually needs - OIL.

[hound dog]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

Well Deep and HD I did say I was not sure. Good points from both of you. I still think Russia and/or China would be welcomed for a while, more free arms, and can you imagine China's response to attacks on their areas??
Why do I feel so? Well in Russia do they need any resource so bad as to fight the Islamist's, China too. There is one thing in the ME that most any country wantsand usually needs - OIL.

The one thing Russia does not need from the Middle East is hydrocarbons, she has plenty of her own. And Russia's economy being what it is these days, I don't think Putin would be giving anything away for free, he want's buyers for the things he can sell, who will pay in cash.

China could use the oil, but China has made a very good deal for China with Russia in that respect. Middle Eastern oil exporters would likely need to match that deal, so for China it's a buyer's market currently.

[chris chunt]

the Tunisian gunman fits the profile of an ugly loser who had no prospects in life until Isis came along and brainwashed him online and tempted him into martyrdom with a VIP ticket to Allah's side in heaven if he committed an atrocity against the west .

why isn't more being done to shutdown Isis online activities ?
without the propaganda of gruesome beheading videos or the ability to brainwash the vulnerable in other lands Isis would struggle .

don't tell me its not beyond some technological whizz kids capabilities at google or somewhere to shut Isis off

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by chris chunt

don't tell me its not beyond some technological whizz kids capabilities at google or somewhere to shut Isis off

Sadly just look at Farcebook where some really horrible images and videos are shown and they refuse to take them down, they want people to view it to attract site hits (or shits as they are better known) the technology may be there, the will is certainly not.

[chris chunt]

Facebook then are guilty of commissioning the next round of sickening torturing to death videos .
without an audience Isis wouldn't bother .

were no better than our ancestors in the middle ages who would see the gruesome spectacle of hanging drawing and quartering of a prisoner as a fun day out .

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

Well Deep and HD I did say I was not sure. Good points from both of you. I still think Russia and/or China would be welcomed for a while, more free arms, and can you imagine China's response to attacks on their areas??

China has been extremely aggressive against their Uighur Muslims, far more so in some ways than we have.

We captured a number of Chinese Uighurs in Afghanistan, who'd been fighting with al Qaeda, and we had them at Guantanamo. We decided that we couldn't send them back to China, because the Chinese would kill them.

So the US taxpayer paid a number of other countries to take them(if memory serves, they've gone to Palau, El Salvador and Bermuda).

China has done all kinds of things to crack down on their Muslims. See, for example

Originally Posted by China's war on terror becomes all-out attack on Islam in Xinjiang

SHACHE COUNTY, China – The month of Ramadan should have been a time of fasting, charity and prayer in China’s Muslim west. But here, in many of the towns and villages of southern Xinjiang, it was a time of fear, repression, and violence.

China’s campaign against separatism and terrorism in its mainly Muslim west has now become an all-out war on conservative Islam, residents here say.

Throughout Ramadan,police intensified a campaign of house-to-house searches, looking for books or clothing that betray “conservative” religious belief among the region’s ethnic Uighurs: women wearing veils were widely detained, and many young men arrested on the slightest pretext, residents say. Students and civil servants were forced to eat instead of fasting, and work or attend classes instead of attending Friday prayers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...7e9_story.html

@Chris Chunt

Originally Posted by chris chunt

the Tunisian gunman fits the profile of an ugly loser who had no prospects in life until Isis came along and brainwashed him online and tempted him into martyrdom with a VIP ticket to Allah's side in heaven if he committed an atrocity against the west .

Doesn't seem so, and this is a misuse of the term "brainwash" -- to the extent that it means anything, it certainly can't mean that someone seizes control of your mind, body snatcher style, via a Twitter feed.

These folks are Muslims, who know what they're about, and they think that Islamic State represents the way Muslims should behave. They're not crazy or losers, and they're not inventing something out of whole cloth. They're reading the Quran and the Hadith, and they're essentially re-enacting the early history of Islam.

Islam spread through precisely this kind of violence, and the Islamic State may be an anachronism, but its a pretty fair copy of what happened 1200 years ago. Things change, and not all Muslims agree that jihad is still operative in the modern world. But its still in the religious texts, and you'd find many Muslims agreeing with some portion of what ISIS propounds.

Take the idea "people should live under Shariah law, and that's a requirement, not a choice" -- That proposition would be accepted in much of the Islamic world, and among many Muslims who live elsewhere too.