Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[haroldeye]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

Urgent? Not until 40 weeks have elapsed .

Depends if your wife finds out.

[haroldeye]

Your parents came here just after the war and of German/Polish heritage, they must have found it very difficult. With years of war and hatred they must have found it difficult, anti-German feelings were running high. However, your parents manage to survive but they must have had to endure many years of racial hatred.

My Father married a good Yorkshire lass with an attitude harder than millstone grit and actually met very little racial abuse. He went down the mines and we lived in a mining village. I probably had more grief over passing my 11+ (and therefore automatically becoming a grammar school snob) than I did having a foreign surname. I do not recall any racial hatred. At school we had a Japanese boy and an Hindu chap, a slack handful of people of Polish, Hungarian and Czech descent and a girl of very exotic but never quite specified descent. Again I can't remember any racial hatred or problems. We practised inclusivity, didn't matter where you came from, it mattered more what you were and where you were going. Your parents may have been racist mine certainly were not. I do not see any similarities and I wonder what on Earth the EU has to do with this.

Mutti Merkle broke the EU convention on acting together and started to import third world people some of whom were most certainly refugees and some most certainly were not. The German people in particular were very welcoming but as the incidents of criminality, especially rape/sexual assaults rose dramatically then the far right were given fuel for their pathetic prejudices. She then tried to palm them off to the Eastern states and thereby causing more racial tension there. In this instance it is the EU that has fuelled racial intolerance and the rise of the far right by ignoring Merkles actions.

[haroldeye]

Protectionism is economic suicide. It was tried in the 1930s after the 1928 crash, and it didn't work

Moko just in case you haven't quite taken it on yet. The EU is protectionist. The UK stands for Free Trade and has for years. We joined the EEC to help remove barriers and since then it has morphed into into the protectionist EU.

[bacchus61]

I have said what I have to say. Still the only item on the agenda appears to be immigration, no valid arguments have been put forward re anything else. I will delete myself from this forum so not point posting any replies, I will not read them.
I hope that everything turns out for the best, whatever your views we are in it now.
I have chosen my future and what I choose to do, I trust you have too. I wish everyone who has read these posts and responses all the very best for the future with absolutely no animosity to anyone.
Good luck, best wishes and a prosperous future to you all

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by bacchus61

So far no one has come up with anything other than immigration/control of our borders as a reason to leave Europe.
So ignoring immigration, what are the benefits?

They actually have but it doesn't fit your neat little tick boxes so you blithely ignore it.
I voted out as I do not like the direction the EU is heading towards so as I was kindly given the opportunity to get off at the next station I took it.
It may take many years to reap the full benefits however considering just one example - trade, as I have pointed out the EU/Canada trade deal took almost a decade to sort with all the bargaining from each nation and it's still not 100% signed, sealed & delivered. The UK as a sovereign state could conduct trade deals a lot quicker to the advantage of both sides.
The EU/Japan deal took over 5 years, it's a lot harder to negotiate when no one wants to miss out on anything.

Originally Posted by bacchus61

I have said what I have to say. Still the only item on the agenda appears to be immigration, no valid arguments have been put forward re anything else. I will delete myself from this forum so not point posting any replies, I will not read them.
I hope that everything turns out for the best, whatever your views we are in it now.
I have chosen my future and what I choose to do, I trust you have too. I wish everyone who has read these posts and responses all the very best for the future with absolutely no animosity to anyone.
Good luck, best wishes and a prosperous future to you all

This may come as a massive shock to some but guess what, we do NOT have to justify or give any reasons why we voted Leave or Remain. It was a personal choice for each of us, I don't go around asking if people voted Remain? and if so why? It was their choice too and I fully respect that, that is how the voting system works, our votes are secret.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by ********

Check harder.



This leaftlet was delivered to EVERY SINGLE HOUSE in the UK.

A very poor argument, it's a leaflet from the NO campaign and pretty much argues against everything HMG said in their booklet, it more relates to a fear for the future in the EEC. The HMG booklet dismisses every point raised in that pisspoor attempt at undeniable proof.
There is no evidence anywhere that the EEC or HMG at any stage prior to the 1975 referendum advised the British public of the future direction of the EEC, it became the EU in 1993 at which time the EEC was incorporated and renamed as the European Community (EC), dropping off Economic was a big clue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...omic_Community

[haroldeye]

Originally Posted by ********

Um... The largest free trade block, with the strongest free trade ties in the world... Is protectionist?

The organization that has just done trade deals with Canada and Japan, which opposes Trump's protectionist policies openly and vocally... Is protectionist?

Okay buddy.

Yup! It is a free trade area if you are a member but not if you are not a member, it protects itself. But it goes further by banning member states from trading with anyone other than another member state. It even tries to ban states who have trade treaties with it from trading with other states.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by ********

So your argument is basically that the no campaign wasn't convincing enough.

Note that the HMG pamphlet agrees that this is the future direction of the EU, but notes that the UK has a veto/opt-out (true) and that any loss of sovereignty is worth it.

It's not their fault if you are not good at reading comprehension. In any case it was discussed at length on TV and radio so you can't even use that as an excuse.

I'll forgive your pitifully childish dig about my reading comprehension as you are still numb with shock over the 2016 results and still need comforting.

We are just refuting this nonsense, nothing else. TTFN YOUR argument was and still is that every household was aware of the direction the EU was heading in back in 1975 as we were all told so explicitly. Saying it was discussed at length on TV & radio is total bollocks as no one else remembers this, so where is your evidence? Is it just that you sorta remember it Could it have been in the 80's????

That argument is about as convincing as saying that if we ever find alien life anywhere that Chariots of The Gods predicted it.

Originally Posted by ********

Note that the HMG pamphlet agrees that this is the future direction of the EU, but notes that the UK has a veto/opt-out (true) and that any loss of sovereignty is worth it.

As I have also mentioned previously sovereignty is mentioned just once here

"Fact No. 3. The British Parliament in Westminster retains the final right to repeal the Act which took us into the Market on January 1, 1973. Thus our continued membership will depend on the continuing assent of Parliament.
The White Paper on the new Market terms recently presented to Parliament by the Prime Minister declares that through membership of the Market we are better able to advance and protect our national interests. This is the essence of sovereignty."

Veto is mentioned twice here
"Fact No. 2. No important new policy can be decided in Brussels or anywhere else without the consent of a British Minister answerable to a British Government and British Parliament.

The top decision-making body in the Market is the Council of Ministers, which is composed of senior Ministers representing each of the nine member governments.

It is the Council of Ministers, and not the market's officials, who take the important decisions. These decisions can be taken only if all the members of the Council agree. The Minister representing Britain can veto any proposal for a new law or a new tax if he considers it to be against British interests. Ministers from the other Governments have the same right to veto."

Go back to jail and do not collect 200 Euros

And the prize point from the HMG pamphlet .....

"There was a threat to employment in Britain from the movement in the Common Market towards an Economic & Monetary Union. This could have forced us to accept fixed exchange rates for the pound, restricting industrial growth and putting jobs at risk. This threat has been removed."

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by ********

Untrue, if care is not taken during pregnancy then it can harm the child.

That explains a lot.

[chupachups]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

Yup! It is a free trade area if you are a member but not if you are not a member, it protects itself. But it goes further by banning member states from trading with anyone other than another member state. It even tries to ban states who have trade treaties with it from trading with other states.

seems some people have been hoodwinked into believing the EU's catchphrase "free trade zone" is about free trade across the world rather than what it is, a customs union that prohibits free trade with the rest of the world

a bit like the "democratic people's republic of korea" being the official name for north korea, but of course with N korea, no-one is stupid enough to believe it