Covid 19 (coronavirus)

**CallMeMaybe** · February 17th, 2020, 12:56 PM

First off my sympathy to those affected and condolences to the families of those lost.

This is an insidious breakout and I'm just going to say what some are thinking.

There is no lengths that Donald Trump wouldn't go to to win a trade war at any cost... what does he care about a little collateral damage worldwide. He has laughed at almost every law on the books, what's one more when no one can stop this guy!

Orchardway · February 17th, 2020, 01:15 PM

Some who?

The US is still months and months away from their nominating conventions and more months after that before the actual election.

There are ZERO signs that the virus is infecting people and killing at an exponential rate. Now, China may be murdering those who are infected inside it's borders, but that's an entirely different matter.

And it should be noted that the % of the Chinese population that has been affected in any measurable way by this virus hasn't even come close to 5%, let alone 10% of the population.

I have heard and read NOTHING about ANYONE associated with the US being responsible in ANY way for the rise and spread of the virus.

**Brecht** · February 17th, 2020, 02:10 PM

I can't comment on the germ warfare theory as this would be too far-fetched for a mere mortal like myself but I do think that the huge outcry in our mainstream media is part of an economic warfare against China. Far more people die from the flu but you don't see our media in doomsday mood over that.

MaxJoker · February 17th, 2020, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brecht

I can't comment on the germ warfare theory as this would be too far-fetched for a mere mortal like myself but I do think that the huge outcry in our mainstream media is part of an economic warfare against China. Far more people die from the flu but you don't see our media in doomsday mood over that.

Exactly.
What`s not being reported is just how many are recovering and leaving hospital over in China. Instead the focus remains on those dying. Who in majority main tend to be the very young , elderly or those with already established respiratory issues. Yes any deaths are tragic. But a bad case of intense flu can kill just as cruelly those most vulnerable to health attack.

**bowlinggreen** · February 17th, 2020, 05:24 PM

I doubt it's man-made. I think a virus engineered for biological warfare would be much more lethal, at least if it was one built for a total-war scenario and was accidentally leaked.

No sane government would deliberately release anything like that, because eventually it would infect them as well.

This doesn't appears to be any worse than a nasty flu, and thousands of people died from the flu last year in the USA alone.

What's troublesome about the Corona virus is its long asymptomatic incubation period, which allows it to spread far and wide. And it appears to be pretty contagious, if what happened on that cruise ship is any indicator.

Grisha666 · February 17th, 2020, 08:32 PM

The problem is we don't know the lethality. There are worrying signs that the real numbers are much higher. Certainly the PRC response is extremely disproportionate to the numbers they report, which ties into creditable reports that causes of death are being reported as pneumonia or other ailments.

**CallMeMaybe** · February 17th, 2020, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orchardway

I have heard and read NOTHING about ANYONE associated with the US being responsible in ANY way for the rise and spread of the virus.

That would defeat the purpose would it not???

Sabbatage is a sport for some countries that want to fuck shit up for others without taking credit. Wars have been started because of it.

Orchardway · February 18th, 2020, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CallMeMaybe

That would defeat the purpose would it not???

Sabbatage is a sport for some countries that want to fuck shit up for others without taking credit. Wars have been started because of it.

Still waiting on you to tell us where you got the 'information' in your OP.

Actually, nevermind, I know that you got it from FoxNews, which means it's just more bullshit fearmongering.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...-theories.html

Rotax1 · February 18th, 2020, 12:57 AM

At first glance the entire thing appears to be another, though much more severe SARS epidemic (COVID-19 and SARS are 99% genetically related) and since SARS-type agents are endemic in China a new outbreak had to be expected anyway.

Alas there is one fact creating some suspicion in my mind...

Interestingly regarding to available statistics ALL people who have died of COVID-19 outside China (inside the PRC there are already over 1700 fatalities!) are also ethnic Chinese people. Almost without exception infected patients of non-Chinese descent developed only a mild form of disease or even no syndrome symptomatic at all.

Possibly COVID-19 is intentionally targeted at people with a Chinese DNA profile, eliminating the risk of creating an uncontrollable pandemic in Africa or other vulnerable regions of the globe. Creating this kind of specifically modified SARS-type virus is certainly technologically within the capabilities of several of China's strategic rivals.

So lets hope that this will all be only an informed speculation and big bad mother nature was actually at work.

**CallMeMaybe** · February 18th, 2020, 01:53 AM

I never said Trump did it. I said he is capable of anything and losing is not an option for him and he was losing to China... he's just that kind of an asshole that would sacrifice his own mother to win at anything.

There's no evidence that the 2019 coronavirus originated in a Chinese government laboratory

17th Feb 2020

Claim

Scientists believe that coronavirus may have come from bats in a Chinese research facility.

Conclusion

Two Chinese scientists have published an article suggesting that the 2019 coronavirus outbreak could have originated from bats in a laboratory in Wuhan. However, apart from maps showing the proximity of laboratories, they offer no evidence to prove this.

“Did coronavirus originate in Chinese government laboratory? Scientists believe killer disease may have begun in research facility 300 yards from Wuhan wet fish market”

MailOnline, 16 February 2020

“THE coronavirus could have spread from a Wuhan laboratory which housed 600 bats which attacked and “peed on” scientists, experts say.”

The Sun, 16 February 2020

Several newspapers have reported on claims by Chinese scientists that the current coronavirus (Covid-19) may have originated in bats kept in a Chinese government laboratory in Wuhan.

The reports are of a real paper published by Chinese scientists, but it’s important to understand the context. The paper hasn’t been peer reviewed, and it doesn’t offer any clear evidence that the outbreak began in a lab. It simply proposes it as a possibility.

The paper also doesn’t support claims that the virus was artificially created.

What does the paper say?

The scientists wrote about the possible pathways between infected bats (which have been identified as the possible origins of the disease) and the seafood market where Covid-19 outbreak reportedly began.

The authors concluded that two discussed pathways that may have led to infected bats in the market were improbable.

The first is that the bats flew to the market from their natural habitat. They doubted this, saying that the bats carrying the virus are found more than 900 kilometres away from Wuhan. It seems fair to say that Wuhan is not the natural habitat*of this particular bat species.

The second pathway that they discuss is that the bats were sold in the market and eaten as food. They say that, according to local reports, bats are not eaten in Wuhan.

The researchers suggest that research facilities close to the seafood market may be the missing link.

Using online maps, the authors conclude that there are laboratories conducting research on bats about 280 metres and 12 kilometres from the market. The authors cite research papers coming out of both labs as evidence.

The paper doesn’t provide any evidence beyond the maps

Firstly, while a pre-print of this paper has been published (a pre-print is an early draft that has not yet been peer reviewed) it is unclear whether this paper will be published in a research journal and therefore whether it has been reviewed by other academics.

Also the research doesn’t provide any evidence that the bats held in the Wuhan laboratories had Covid-19. The papers written on research conducted in the lab 280m from the seafood market were not on any type of coronavirus. The paper written on research conducted in the lab 12km from the market was on a coronavirus, but not Covid-19. (Coronaviruses are a large group of viruses that infect many species, of which Covid-19 is just one.)

And this is not the only plausible theory for how Covid-19 infected humans. The researchers do not discuss the theorythat Covid-19 spread from bats to an intermediary animal and then to humans.

They state in the paper that “solid proofs are needed in future study”.

It’s worth noting that the researchers suggest that Covid-19 spread to humans from bats naturally carrying the coronavirus. There is*no*evidence*or suggestion in the paper that Covid-19 was artificially created in a lab.

February 17th, 2020, 12:56 PM	#1
CallMeMaybe Vintage Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Canada Posts: 3,505 Thanks: 14,708 Thanked 42,508 Times in 3,508 Posts	Covid 19 (coronavirus) First off my sympathy to those affected and condolences to the families of those lost. This is an insidious breakout and I'm just going to say what some are thinking. There is no lengths that Donald Trump wouldn't go to to win a trade war at any cost... what does he care about a little collateral damage worldwide. He has laughed at almost every law on the books, what's one more when no one can stop this guy!

February 17th, 2020, 05:24 PM	#5
bowlinggreen Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 4,192 Thanks: 48,676 Thanked 49,168 Times in 4,188 Posts	I doubt it's man-made. I think a virus engineered for biological warfare would be much more lethal, at least if it was one built for a total-war scenario and was accidentally leaked. No sane government would deliberately release anything like that, because eventually it would infect them as well. This doesn't appears to be any worse than a nasty flu, and thousands of people died from the flu last year in the USA alone. What's troublesome about the Corona virus is its long asymptomatic incubation period, which allows it to spread far and wide. And it appears to be pretty contagious, if what happened on that cruise ship is any indicator. __________________ So much porn, so little time...

February 18th, 2020, 01:53 AM	#10
CallMeMaybe Vintage Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Canada Posts: 3,505 Thanks: 14,708 Thanked 42,508 Times in 3,508 Posts	I never said Trump did it. I said he is capable of anything and losing is not an option for him and he was losing to China... he's just that kind of an asshole that would sacrifice his own mother to win at anything. There's no evidence that the 2019 coronavirus originated in a Chinese government laboratory 17th Feb 2020 Claim Scientists believe that coronavirus may have come from bats in a Chinese research facility. Conclusion Two Chinese scientists have published an article suggesting that the 2019 coronavirus outbreak could have originated from bats in a laboratory in Wuhan. However, apart from maps showing the proximity of laboratories, they offer no evidence to prove this. “Did coronavirus originate in Chinese government laboratory? Scientists believe killer disease may have begun in research facility 300 yards from Wuhan wet fish market” MailOnline, 16 February 2020 “THE coronavirus could have spread from a Wuhan laboratory which housed 600 bats which attacked and “peed on” scientists, experts say.” The Sun, 16 February 2020 Several newspapers have reported on claims by Chinese scientists that the current coronavirus (Covid-19) may have originated in bats kept in a Chinese government laboratory in Wuhan. The reports are of a real paper published by Chinese scientists, but it’s important to understand the context. The paper hasn’t been peer reviewed, and it doesn’t offer any clear evidence that the outbreak began in a lab. It simply proposes it as a possibility. The paper also doesn’t support claims that the virus was artificially created. What does the paper say? The scientists wrote about the possible pathways between infected bats (which have been identified as the possible origins of the disease) and the seafood market where Covid-19 outbreak reportedly began. The authors concluded that two discussed pathways that may have led to infected bats in the market were improbable. The first is that the bats flew to the market from their natural habitat. They doubted this, saying that the bats carrying the virus are found more than 900 kilometres away from Wuhan. It seems fair to say that Wuhan is not the natural habitatof this particular bat species. The second pathway that they discuss is that the bats were sold in the market and eaten as food. They say that, according to local reports, bats are not eaten in Wuhan. The researchers suggest that research facilities close to the seafood market may be the missing link. Using online maps, the authors conclude that there are laboratories conducting research on bats about 280 metres and 12 kilometres from the market. The authors cite research papers coming out of both labs as evidence. The paper doesn’t provide any evidence beyond the maps Firstly, while a pre-print of this paper has been published (a pre-print is an early draft that has not yet been peer reviewed) it is unclear whether this paper will be published in a research journal and therefore whether it has been reviewed by other academics. Also the research doesn’t provide any evidence that the bats held in the Wuhan laboratories had Covid-19. The papers written on research conducted in the lab 280m from the seafood market were not on any type of coronavirus. The paper written on research conducted in the lab 12km from the market was on a coronavirus, but not Covid-19. (Coronaviruses are a large group of viruses that infect many species, of which Covid-19 is just one.) And this is not the only plausible theory for how Covid-19 infected humans. The researchers do not discuss the theorythat Covid-19 spread from bats to an intermediary animal and then to humans. They state in the paper that “solid proofs are needed in future study”. It’s worth noting that the researchers suggest that Covid-19 spread to humans from bats naturally carrying the coronavirus. There isnoevidenceor suggestion in the paper that Covid-19 was artificially created in a lab. Last edited by CallMeMaybe; February 18th, 2020 at 01:59 AM..

February 17th, 2020, 01:15 PM	#2
Orchardway Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 65 Thanks: 49 Thanked 659 Times in 63 Posts	Some who? The US is still months and months away from their nominating conventions and more months after that before the actual election. There are ZERO signs that the virus is infecting people and killing at an exponential rate. Now, China may be murdering those who are infected inside it's borders, but that's an entirely different matter. And it should be noted that the % of the Chinese population that has been affected in any measurable way by this virus hasn't even come close to 5%, let alone 10% of the population. I have heard and read NOTHING about ANYONE associated with the US being responsible in ANY way for the rise and spread of the virus.

February 17th, 2020, 02:10 PM	#3
Brecht Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 10,657 Thanks: 180,485 Thanked 188,138 Times in 10,453 Posts	I can't comment on the germ warfare theory as this would be too far-fetched for a mere mortal like myself but I do think that the huge outcry in our mainstream media is part of an economic warfare against China. Far more people die from the flu but you don't see our media in doomsday mood over that.

February 17th, 2020, 08:32 PM	#6
Grisha666 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 191 Thanks: 12,765 Thanked 1,598 Times in 187 Posts	The problem is we don't know the lethality. There are worrying signs that the real numbers are much higher. Certainly the PRC response is extremely disproportionate to the numbers they report, which ties into creditable reports that causes of death are being reported as pneumonia or other ailments.

February 18th, 2020, 12:57 AM	#9
Rotax1 Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 29 Thanks: 22 Thanked 205 Times in 25 Posts	At first glance the entire thing appears to be another, though much more severe SARS epidemic (COVID-19 and SARS are 99% genetically related) and since SARS-type agents are endemic in China a new outbreak had to be expected anyway. Alas there is one fact creating some suspicion in my mind... Interestingly regarding to available statistics ALL people who have died of COVID-19 outside China (inside the PRC there are already over 1700 fatalities!) are also ethnic Chinese people. Almost without exception infected patients of non-Chinese descent developed only a mild form of disease or even no syndrome symptomatic at all. Possibly COVID-19 is intentionally targeted at people with a Chinese DNA profile, eliminating the risk of creating an uncontrollable pandemic in Africa or other vulnerable regions of the globe. Creating this kind of specifically modified SARS-type virus is certainly technologically within the capabilities of several of China's strategic rivals. So lets hope that this will all be only an informed speculation and big bad mother nature was actually at work.