President Donald Trump's Final Days...

[HugoHackenbush]

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!

[martynz]

Come on guys....even you are getting it wrong.

[charliels531]

Originally Posted by Nobody1

The purpose of such questions is provocation, not journalism. Since when are useless provocations by obviously untrained or incompetent journalists in the interest of the American people?

So you're a mind reader? The AP doesn't send "untrained or incompetent" journalists to Finland to harass your hero.

For attentive observers, the Trump administration's ultimate goal seems nothing more than a renewed desperate effort to secure imaginary US hegemony by indirectly curbing China as an emerging economic power. The revival of friendly diplomatic relations with Russia would be the first political requirement in this context.

So was your hero lying when he answered the question, or today when he retracted his answer?

I watched his response quite carefully, and found it to be further evidence of his dementia.

[charliels531]

Originally Posted by palo5

Ok, further.... what else do you know apart from speculation and groundless Western accusations?

Palo5, neither of us will accept evidence from the other. I tend to rely on British intelligence and Reuters, neither of which is noted for "groundless Western accusations", since you seem to only accept Russian sources.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1JZ1V8

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by palo5

Ok, further.... what else do you know apart from speculation and groundless Western accusations?

How can you be sure that the accusations are groundless? Some accusations have publicly disclosed documentary evidence. Others are consistent with actions of Russian security agencies for the past 100 years.

Trump is in way over his head. Mr Putin is a far more astute leader. Admittedly, many of our journalists are not very intelligent. All of us interpret reality through our various ideological lenses. Some journalists lenses are very flawed.

Xi must be laughing his ass off. In the grand poker game, Trump has the most chips but has no idea of what he is doing, Xi is poised to take maximum advantage of Trump's ineptitude, and Putin has the smallest stack and a weak hand, but is the strongest player.

It is hard to tell, what if any effect the influence campaign had. The Democrats put up a candidate who is disliked by the public as least as much as Richard Nixon was in his day. She ran a weak campaign. The FBI Director meddled in the campaign in an absolutely outrageous manner. The acuity of American voters is very suspect. All of these factors were more important than stirring up controversy on social media.

Trump's problem is that he failed to realize that putting himself at the focal point of public attention would call attention to questionable business deals with Russian nationals. He also allowed several questionable characters to attach themselves to his campaign.

Palo5, my friend, I read tell alls from former KGB agents, exposes of the CIA, accounts of the politics of the Soviet Union and the United States. I worked many years in Corporate America and have friends and family who moved in very high places. My conclusion is that stupidity permeates all human endeavors to the highest levels. We find drunkards, backbiting, petty jealousies, double dealing, betrayal, and ineptitude all around us.

The miracle is not that things run badly. The miracle is that they work as well as they do.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by palo5

I think exactly the opposite. He's straight and tells you what he thinks. Of course he knows more than he tells you, but he doesn't lie, he doesn't do BS and he doesn't do soundbites. If you you think you can call me on that, be my guest

You should hear his annual Q&A's, which last 3-4 hours or more and during which he takes hundreds of questions, some very sensitive. Quite often he appears on international TV panels to be "grilled" by outside journalists, and he never disappoints. In fact, sometimes he shames the journalists for their lack of knowledge. No Western politician comes anywhere close to Putin's level of inside or outside cross-examination on camera

No one has ever been able to prove him wrong. Of course, the West complains bitterly about Ukraine & Crimea, after they themselves started a coup in the country. But listen to his answers, and you'll get it completely -- it had nothing to do with aggression

Mr Putin is a man of high intelligence and very hard working. In this he somewhat resembles Lavrenti Beria - though in fairness I don't for a moment compare their personal lives.

I remember seeing the televised discussion between Mr Putin and Mikhail Khordokovsky, in which Mr Putin coped rather impressively with Khordokovsky's highly detailed and searching questions concerning the embedded corruption of the Kremlin and the Russian government generally. But it was not long after this television event that Mr Khordokovsky was arrested and his assets were frozen and then expropriated by the Russian government without compensation. You are not allowed to challenge or slight Mr Putin and nothing bad happens - there will be a reckoning.

Incidentally, you show me a world leader who doesn't lie through his back teeth and I will show you a person with no tongue and no hands. Of course Mr Putin lies extravagantly. Only he knows if or when he is telling the truth, and even then only if he can trust himself. One of his answers at the press conference was very instructive.

t: “As to who is to be believed, who is not to be believed, you can trust no one. Where did you get this idea that President Trump trusts me or I trust him? He defends the interests of the United States of America. I do defend the interests of the Russian Federation."

This at least is an honest and frank answer and if there is anything I do respect about Mr Putin it is the absence of bullshit. This man lies constantly, but is truthful about his agenda and his priorities. he went on to say -

We do have interests that are common. We are looking for points of contact. There are issues where our postures diverge and we are looking for ways to reconcile our differences, how to make our effort more meaningful. We should not proceed from the immediate political interests that guide certain political powers in our countries. We should be guided by facts.

Source - https://www.politico.eu/article/dona...transcription/
In many ways, this is just like Churchill meeting Stalin in August 1942.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by charliels531

Palo5, neither of us will accept evidence from the other. I tend to rely on British intelligence and Reuters, neither of which is noted for "groundless Western accusations"

Hahaha!

Actually, they have a rock bottom international reputation, if you didn't know it. They continually have claims, but can never provide evidence. The Iraq War propaganda was obvious to the whole world. Claims of Kremlin-ordered murders in England are another. They can never prove anything, because they never have a case

British Intelligence is portrayed to you as "the best in the world" and I'm sure true patriots believe it. But it's not what the rest of the world thinks, and they know a whole lot more

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by palo5

British Intelligence is portrayed to you as "the best in the world" and I'm sure true patriots believe it. But it's not what the rest of the world thinks, and they know a whole lot more

My money is on the Mossad. When you have as many enemies as Israel does, your very survival depends upon being the world's best.

Mueller's indictments showed that Russian agencies are just as vulnerable as ever. We Americans may be ham fisted clowns, but those fists are full of cash, which goes a long way in a country plagued with looters.

I have to say this. When a clown like Michael Flynn rises to the top ranks of your military intelligence apparatus, there is something very wrong with your selection processes.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by palo5

Hahaha!

Actually, they have a rock bottom international reputation, if you didn't know it. They continually have claims, but can never provide evidence. The Iraq War propaganda was obvious to the whole world. Claims of Kremlin-ordered murders in England are another. They can never prove anything, because they never have a case

British Intelligence is portrayed to you as "the best in the world" and I'm sure true patriots believe it. But it's not what the rest of the world thinks, and they know a whole lot more

It was the British SIS which uncovered the presence of Soviet nuclear missiles on Cuba, subsequently confirmed by American aerial and satellite reconnaissance. I believe our source was Oleg Penkovsky.

Alan Turing worked for British Intelligence at Bletchley Park during the war. They who once were at Bletchley Park are nowadays located at GCHQ in Cheltenham, and their work goes on; but details of what they do remains top secret. It is known that they monitor electronic communications and that surveillance of internet traffic is a growing field and challenge - and a number of deadly terrorist plots have been unravelled by this means. So Comrade Palo doesn't really have a clue about what British Intelligence actually does or doesn't so. In this world of terrorism and a-symmetrical threats, even Comrade Palo is safer in his bed as a direct consequence of the existence and work of GCHQ and British Intelligence.

As for the Iraq dossier, it is well known that it was doctored by the Labour Government, and I reckon the Intelligence Services were thoroughly misused and exploited as a means to an end. This is a reflection on Tony Blair rather than on little anonymous people who serve their country in the tradition of the little and anonymous people who used to work at Bletchley Park and mostly lived 50-60 years afterwards without ever talking to even their own husbands, wives and children about their service during the war. It is hard to defend your record if you are not even allowed to talk.

As for the poisonings on British soil, it is not as though the Russian Federation was trying hard to conceal its direct involvement. The only logical reason for using polonium 210 and Novichok nerve agent is to advertise your involvement. It is a statement and an act of intimidation, plus a calculated insult to my country. Now that a British citizen is dead, depend on it that we will have revenge, somewhere, sometime, someday. We waited 25 years to get square with Colonel Ghadaffi; but we settled the account eventually. We will wait for Luguvoy and we will find out who authorised the Novichok attack and wait for them too. If the chance never comes up, then it never comes up. But no matter how long it takes, we will wait. Fifty years from now, we will still be waiting, and you will have forgotten about it, but we will still be waiting our chance. And in the nature of things, one day our chance will come.

[charliels531]

Originally Posted by palo5

British Intelligence is portrayed to you as "the best in the world" and I'm sure true patriots believe it. But it's not what the rest of the world thinks, and they know a whole lot more

I accept nothing as portrayed. British intelligence has a very good track record for learning from their mistakes. If I were to pick a "best", I would pick Uruguay or New Zealand, though I am not into beauty contests.

At one time I would have agreed that Mossad was excellent, but Bibi Netanyahu has so crippled it with his various political quests that I would rank it nowhere near the top. In its present state it offers little protection to Israel.

Given my personal qualms, and given the number of moles planted in U.S. services, I tip my hat to China.