The Military History Thread

[otokonomidori]

The War of Jenkins Ear - that was a good one - I'm sure you all know about that too.

[haroldeye]

1749ish. Some Spanish types cut off Capt Jenkins ear and so we gave them a bit of a handbagging and told them not to do it again.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

...The country was before peacefully, and the woman also wasn't running around like tents. It had been at the step to become an industrial nation...

It's not true, Puhbear. Attempts were made to help them, like building schools, roads, hospitals. In other words, everything they didn't do themselves. A lot of the infrastructure is Soviet-built

But they really hated 'modern' ideas like allowing girls to go to school, and much else. They thought it was better to keep women uneducated. Outside the cities it was worst of all

[Puhbear69]

No, I have to disagree here:

Before this country got to the rubble ground of the world, the were at the step of becoming an industry nation. Of course you are right, the infra structure on the country side wasn't fine. But hey, how does the countryside look in India, China, Turkey - even in Russia & Brazil, ect.. You can't compare it with countries having a long history as industrial nations. They were on the step to become one, I said. In case of Afghanistan more a light- than a heavy wight (in terms of boxing) of industrial nation, also agreed. But have a look at their number of citizens too. 45 citizens per km² !

It's really hard to get some infos and pics of Afghanistan of that time (much more are showing it as the ruble ground), but I've collected some of the 60s and 70s via Internet:

The picture on the left is showing school girls with their uniforms:

And at least a Burka (I called tent before) too, at the country side of Afghanistan:

I was astonished too, how that country was looking once, if one compares it with the actual pictures. But more than thirty years of war made it look as the ruble ground as it is now. Of course the pictures, except pic #3, are showing the bigger towns (mainly showing Kabul) but one is able to see "slightly" differences - at the people (!), at the buildings - to nowadays Kabul.

The Russians are coming relatively off well in my story " Why do the hate us ? " contrary the Americans, fighting a deputy war in that country.
Agreed the Russian did a lot for the infrastructure during their occupation. But this wasn't wanted by the Afghans because the Russians did it and their illigitim government did it.

And they did not do everything to themselves, that's a fairy-tail too.
But more of this later in this thread.

[haroldeye]

A friend of mine was brought up in Pakistan as the daughter of two teachers/missionaries. In the 60's and 70's Afghanistan was the land of milk and honey where the Pakistani middle classes went on holiday.

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

A friend of mine was brought up in Pakistan as the daughter of two teachers/missionaries. In the 60's and 70's Afghanistan was the land of milk and honey where the Pakistani middle classes went on holiday.

Pakistan itself were different at this time!
It was the time between two military dictatorships were a small plant of democracy was growing. Unfortunately it was at the end the early 80s, when a new military putsch took place and the Islamisation of the country (probably under the influence of Saudi Arabia (& US)?) took place.

[blueballsdc]

Originally Posted by fleetwood77

The War of Jenkins Ear - that was a good one - I'm sure you all know about that too.

That was the answer to one of the questions at the pub quiz last night. Which, naturally, I got correct and won.

[9876543210]

Puhbear69,

Good job with the photos. I never had any idea the Afghani's had an inkling of becoming westernized back in the 60's. Just a couple of questions.

Could these photos be showing only the more urban, higher class, politically connected Afghani's? A group of people much more interested in westernization than the rural poor. So, did this westernization also extend to the interests of the rural poor?

[Puhbear69]

(Because of the progress of this thread I've to start in the end of my time table of post #20 )

I picked of the sentence of 'blueballsds': "We was trying to stop the spread of communism don't ya know." from "The Worst President..." tread.

'Why do they hate us ?' or 'The Americans always had a "lucky hand" with their friends'. 1979

Osama Bin Laden

I've told before, in Afghanistan a military putsch took place under Hafizullah Amin and a communist or socialist system became installed. At first it had "slightly democratic" structures what leads my into to saying a socialist system. Later the hardliner where forced through and Amin was killed by the Russians. In between the Russians had occupied the country. More Afghan details are irrelevant for this story.

This issues took the Americans on the plan. And their partner Saudi Arabia. And in Saudi Arabia they found a reliable young men called "Osama Bin Laden". BTW, the Bushes were familiar with the Bin Laden family!

In on it has been Rumsfeld, this time as special envoy in Baghdad (1980). "With whom shall I fight" Bin Laden may have asked, "with the few Afghan rebels, I can't relay on". That was the hour of the CIA, to collect all the young frustrated political scatterbrains and fanatic Islamic extremists from the Arabian countries by making them a better offer. The Arabian countries like Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Egypt, Yemen, Kuwait, Oman Pakistan ect. were happy to get them rid off. Yes because it stabilized them, because at all they were dictatorships.

That was the birth of Al Quaida !!!
Trained by the CIA and the Pakistan intelligence in case of terror attacks, financed by Saudi Arabia and the US. 100.000 mercenaries were brought there to fight against the "godless Russians".
For replenishment were no worry in those countries.

After about ten years of war,15.000 deads on Russian side and hunderthousands deads of the Afghan side ( mainly civilians) they had driven out the Russians. The Americans said "thanks a lot" , your country is FREE now and ceased the payments.
As Afghans asked, what to do with the country, it doesn't look that nice , there are hunderthousands of mines the have been told have they got mineral resources ... The Americans let the Afghans sitting in the dirt. They have been left abandonment to their fate.

And the biggest problem were the foreign mercenaries (and of course the immense amount of weapons) :
For mercenaries the fighting wasn't over. What have they learned else than fighting? So they continued fighting in changing coalitions for Afghan war lords, their new employees. Than, after another about six years of war the Taliban were the predominant power to get order. And that country was finally in ruble.
And as they were going to free their brothers in Chechen from the "godless Russians" again and mass murder Putin, then they were Terrorists, because the Americans have switched the sides again.

The Americans have used the Afghan Mudjahedin like toilette paper. Then they throwed them away. But they aren't toilet paper (coming back to Mr. Rumsfelt). They are humans; mentally destroyed, but humans. And mentally destroyed are -mostly- coming back. They are coming back and tackle exactly that ass, they were wiped on.

This is the trial of an explanation, not a justification. To justify there is nothing at all, this was disgusting.

What before has happened - I'm meaning the bomb attacks on the WTC - and what has been going on in the beforehand, no one knows. The Background was made out (Afghanistan) the attackers were found, and the trace had been Afghanistan too, Afghanistan was bombarded by Clinton at that time.
But I'm missing there a link or a piece of that puzzle.

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by 9876543210

Puhbear69,

Good job with the photos. I never had any idea the Afghani's had an inkling of becoming westernized back in the 60's. Just a couple of questions.

Could these photos be showing only the more urban, higher class, politically connected Afghani's? A group of people much more interested in westernization than the rural poor. So, did this westernization also extend to the interests of the rural poor?

The photos showing clearly the urban population. I was searching hours for others in an other forum that time , but I've found nothing.
I think it is not the elite , but the average urban population.

These pics were hard to find.

EDIT: Look at the details,
no woman at the pool, maybe/possibly that has gone still to far for the Afghans.
It's am Muslim country , no doubt , but without the islamism of today.