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Old 12-01-2013, 07:07 AM   #81
deepsepia
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Originally Posted by movieman88 View Post
It made plenty of fucking sense when you consider that saddam was a madman who has committed genocide over the course of the last few decades.

if we are to live in a better world there must be justice, his victims demanded justice. It matters fucking not that there might have been alterior motives for going to Iraq.
Saddam is dead the world is better safer place with out him, SO FUCKING WHAT IF WE TOOK SOME OIL WHILE WE WHERE OVER THERE.
Hmmm ALL CAPS doesn't make a dumb war any less dumb.

Saddam was a bad guy, and he was useful as an enemy of other bad guys, which is why we'd supported him historically.

He was not a "madman" - he was extremely rational, and brutal.

On the evidence, that seems to be what it takes to run Iraq.

Perhaps you'll explain to me how Saddam's victims differ from today's victims in Iraq; unless you're proposing that the US occupy and administer every rotten place on the Earth, neither your assertion nor the Iraq war made any sense.

Here's Iraq today, in case you missed it -- the news doesn't cover Iraq much any more.

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Originally Posted by Execution-Style Killings in Iraq Raise Fears of Return to Sectarian Violence (NYT)

BAGHDAD — A family of five killed in their home. A group of men shot dead in a field. Eight bodies, tied up in cable, discovered on a farm, each with a bullet in the head

More than 300 Iraqis have been killed this month in bombings and shootings in markets, along roadsides, near schools and mosques, and in bakeries. On Tuesday, the United Nations Security Council condemned the recent spike in violence in Iraq and the deliberate targeting of places where civilians congregate.

But on Wednesday, the daily tally of violence took on an air of pinpoint deliberation with the execution-style killings of several groups of civilians, a grim reminder of the worst days of sectarian warfare in the country. While major bombings have become common, the killings reintroduced the prospect of a resurgence in the type of violence that rattled Iraq in 2006 and 2007.

The bodies of the eight young men tied in cable were found on a farm in Jubor, a Sunni city south of Baghdad, the same place other bodies had been dumped during the sectarian turmoil seven years ago.

The bodies of five men shot in the head and chest were found in an open field in Shula, a Shiite neighborhood in Baghdad, the authorities said.

The five family members, including two boys and a girl, were killed by gunshot in their house in Hurriya, a Shiite-majority neighborhood of Baghdad, the police said. They were identified as Sunni, but no further information about them was immediately released.

The 18 dead were among at least 40 people, including security forces, who were killed in attacks across Iraq on Wednesday.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility or way to identify the killers. In the past, the authorities have blamed Sunni militants linked to Al Qaeda, and some point to the civil war in neighboring Syria as a reason sectarian divisions in Iraq have intensified.

“It’s clear that Al Qaeda, which represents the Sunnis, and the Shiite militias are again back in the streets,” said Mazin al-Jubori, a military expert and a former officer during the era when Saddam Hussein was in power.
It seems hard for me to believe that there was something worthy about Americans getting killed to move Iraq from Saddam's guys killing people to various Shia and Sunni death squads killing people . . . and the distinction is lost on the American people too.

Bad wars do damage, even to great nations. Vietnam did a lot of damage to the US. Iraq and Afghanistan have too

This damage will heal, but it takes time.
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:51 PM   #82
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It still kind of surprises me Iraq is still a country. I'd of thought they'd have broken apart by now. That would be just fine for the Kurds and Shia (because they'd have the oil) but the Sunni would have little but sand.

Maybe thats the point.

Oh, and movieman88,

What oil are you talking about? Oil was t he real reason we went into Iraq but we got very little out. We spent lots and lots of money trying to repair and rebuild pipelines and refineries but when they were repaired someone blew them up.

Its been awhile since I checked but I think the main way of getting oil out is still by tanker truck. But things are probably better in the Kurdish region.
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:18 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by movieman88 View Post
It made plenty of fucking sense when you consider that saddam was a madman who has committed genocide over the course of the last few decades.

if we are to live in a better world there must be justice, his victims demanded justice. It matters fucking not that there might have been alterior motives for going to Iraq.
Saddam is dead the world is better safer place with out him, SO FUCKING WHAT IF WE TOOK SOME OIL WHILE WE WHERE OVER THERE.
I'd buy this if we were even remotely consistent about applying force in the service of justice, but we don't. Right now currently in the world there are dozens of world leaders and governments as corrupt and oppressive as Saddam's was....some we even consider major allies. Truth is we don't care so long as they don't have anything we want or they don't threaten anything we have. (Which is what Saddam's real crime was back in 1991.) We'll even turn a benevolent blind eye to their crimes provided said leaders tell us what we want to hear. Saddam was one of our best friends in the middle east (gassing Kurds and all) until he decided Kuwait should be in his instead of our pocket.

Destroying Saddam's regime was never about justice. It was about making an example of someone we had spent the last 20 years isolating and rendering defenseless for political reasons, and because it was important that Bush be seen doing SOMETHING concrete in the face of the World Trade center bombings when we couldn't find and kill Osama Bin Laden. We attacked him because we had made sure he couldn't defend himself from us and because he was stupid enough to get on the worlds radar in a bad way.

Last edited by dethtongue; 12-02-2013 at 03:26 PM..
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:57 PM   #84
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Well, you can definitely tell the country club crowd is in charge of the US House the last few years. With all the problems facing the country these clowns have decided they just don't want to deal with anything. So, since 2010, they've decided to become the least effective House in US history by working one week and then taking two weeks off. So, for 2013, that means they'll work about 126 days and be off about 236 days! Nice work if you can get it. Especially if your salary averages about $174,000 annually.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/arti...n_Days_in_2013

But even that is apparently a bit too strenuous for our conservative heroes. So, for 2014, they're only going to work about 113 days!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4181969.html

So, I guess we can add laziness to the attributes of modern conservatives. We already know they're cowards and profligate spenders. So what do they have left? Must be the the moronic social conservatives. Not exactly real good company as those people would sell their mothers for a buck.
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