Questions for our American friends

[haroldeye]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

IMPO I think it is not good to erase historical artifacts. Yes remove it from state property put it in museums but when people start trying to actually totally remove things they find offensive what is nex??? What if people tried erasing the shame of slavery, the lost generation in Australia, the Nazi's, all the wrongs of the British Empire, ad nauseum.
History needs to be preserved as honestly as possible IMO.Of course the saw that "winners write the history" comes to mind.

Santee to compare the Nazis to the British Empire is complete and utter bollocks.

Whatever it may or may not have done the British did not set about murdering a whole race because it didn't like them. It was the British who made the Slave Trade illegal and enforced that arrogance with the Royal Navy. It was the British who abolished slavery. When Sitting Bull had to get out of town quickly he went to Canada where the Sioux were met by a couple of constables who asked them to behave nicely, slightly better treatment than the USA would have given him. Look at the major bastions of democracy and freedom throughout the last 120 years and they are predominately linked to the British Empire.

The British Empire by today's standards was very wrong but by the standards of the times it went through was a shining light to the rest of the world. If you want to talk about evil have a look at Maoist China or Stalins Russia.

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

Santee to compare the Nazis to the British Empire is complete and utter bollocks.

Whatever it may or may not have done the British did not set about murdering a whole race because it didn't like them. It was the British who made the Slave Trade illegal and enforced that arrogance with the Royal Navy. It was the British who abolished slavery. When Sitting Bull had to get out of town quickly he went to Canada where the Sioux were met by a couple of constables who asked them to behave nicely, slightly better treatment than the USA would have given him. Look at the major bastions of democracy and freedom throughout the last 120 years and they are predominately linked to the British Empire.

The British Empire by today's standards was very wrong but by the standards of the times it went through was a shining light to the rest of the world. If you want to talk about evil have a look at Maoist China or Stalins Russia.

Sorry you took it that way Harold as I was just trying to point out that to alter real history is just going to gloss over what happens and in time the falsities will be accepted as fact. The ones I named were not meant as a comparison of equals.
If I had listed only evil ones I would have still been typing.

[gunner]

Could one of our American cousins please let us know what Clown Prince Donald is going to do or say next? Every day some new revelation seems to come out and it cant all be fake news, now it seems his son met with Russian diplomats to discuss the Hilary Clinton campaign and he, CPD, claims he wasn't aware of the fact, well he bloody well should have been. He sends his unelected daughter to represent him at a G20 meeting??? He claims the European countries in NATO aren't contributing their share. well America was all too keen to have its troops in Europe for decades, but I suppose Russia is pleased with the fact that NATO might break up, and how's the wall coming on? unfortunately, CPD is making America look like the laughing stock of the world

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by gunner

Could one of our American cousins please let us know what Clown Prince Donald is going to do or say next? Every day some new revelation seems to come out and it cant all be fake news, now it seems his son met with Russian diplomats to discuss the Hilary Clinton campaign and he, CPD, claims he wasn't aware of the fact, well he bloody well should have been. He sends his unelected daughter to represent him at a G20 meeting??? He claims the European countries in NATO aren't contributing their share. well America was all too keen to have its troops in Europe for decades, but I suppose Russia is pleased with the fact that NATO might break up, and how's the wall coming on? unfortunately, CPD is making America look like the laughing stock of the world

"The toupee" is just the best one, what the US could call up.

[haroldeye]

My apologies for over-reacting. Beers at Eskimo Nell's at 1900.

[Mal Hombre]

What over reacting ? ,You just said what need to be said..Mine's a large one..

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

What over reacting ? ,You just said what need to be said..Mine's a large one..

WHY??? A large what??

[awboy33]

Originally Posted by 73north

I ask a question as a British Student of the American Civil war
( I have read a few books and watched Gettysburg the long movie )
What do fellow Americans think about the removal of four Confederate monuments from New Orleans , for example ?
I ask why a statue of a Confederate war hero is now considered so
' offensive ' ?

As a life long southerner, I could care less about the confederate monuments being taken down. They should be in a museum rather than in public areas. I have never been a big fan of erecting large statutes commemorating individuals for history no matter how influential they were. This includes the various memorials around Washington D.C. I have no problem with memorials in remembrance of entire segments of people (i.e. Tomb of the Unknown, Vietnam Memorial, Korean War Memorial, etc.), but for individuals I do not like it.

What I do have a problem with is the way in which they are being removed. This is all part of the PC movement trying to get rid of anything that may offend anyone at any time. The Civil War happened, get over it. The South lost, get over it. The South shall rise again, probably not. You can argue about the cause and reasons as to why the war was fought in the first place, but in the end get over it. Learn from history and try hard not to repeat it (unfortunately that does not seem to be the case.)

My question is what memorials will be removed years from now. The confederate memorials stood for over a hundred years, what will be removed 100 years from now if not sooner. There are many holocaust deniers, if they attain some political power will the holocaust memorial be the first to go? What about the Martin Luther King Memorial? If at some later date, a group who disagrees with MLK's method of peaceful resistance becomes politically powerful, will they remove any semblance of MLK's accomplishments? As they say "History is written by the victor", so the people who are currently winning the culture war may be basking in these so-called victories, but they need to be reminded that the pendulum never swings and stays were it is.Iit will swing back eventually and when it does they may not like the outcome. As the other saying, "Be careful who you step on as you climb the ladder, because they will not help you when you start to fall."

[awboy33]

Originally Posted by gunner

Could one of our American cousins please let us know what Clown Prince Donald is going to do or say next? Every day some new revelation seems to come out and it cant all be fake news, now it seems his son met with Russian diplomats to discuss the Hilary Clinton campaign and he, CPD, claims he wasn't aware of the fact, well he bloody well should have been. He sends his unelected daughter to represent him at a G20 meeting??? He claims the European countries in NATO aren't contributing their share. well America was all too keen to have its troops in Europe for decades, but I suppose Russia is pleased with the fact that NATO might break up, and how's the wall coming on? unfortunately, CPD is making America look like the laughing stock of the world

Short answer is no one knows what he is going to do or say. In some ways that is good, but it can be very embarrassing. I personally wish he would quit tweeting. Whether America is a laughing stock or not is a matter of opinion. Many people have liked what he has done. He is following a little bit of what Reagan did with the media, and that was taking his message straight to the people rather than relying on the media to disseminate information. This was one reason why the media was so against Reagan and is possibly one reason why they are against Trump.

My personal opinion on much of the reporting about him is a case of "the boy who cried wolf". Much of the media has been so focused on trying to find dirt or come sort of scandal involving him or his family, that they have reported some events as factual that ended up being false. Many people have stopped believing the media entirely. If you are CNN and you have liberal news groups like Vox and Salon telling you that you are out of line or got something wrong because you are so blinded by your animosity that you cannot even begin to appear objective, it is time to make some foundational changes to how you report.

[Sir Honkers]

On the upside Ivanka is hot.