President Donald Trump's Final Days...

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by charliels531

How's that for an "outrageous theory"?

Trump isn't the kind of asset that intelligence agencies like. He's a wrecking ball. I think Putin sees him as a weakness, like a boxer would assess a cut on his opponent.

Spies like quiet, sober, careful . . . eg, "not Trump".

No, I think Trump is just a vulnerability in American political culture that the Russians have exploited.

Putin had a strangely dismissive comment when asked about Trump

Originally Posted by Vladimir Putin

Distinguished colleague, let me tell you this: When President Trump was in Moscow back then, I didn’t even know that he was in Moscow. I treat President Trump with utmost respect, but back then when he was a private individual, a businessman, nobody informed me that he was in Moscow.

Let’s take St. Petersburg economic forum, for instance. There were over 500 American businessmen, high-ranking, high-level ones. I don’t even remember the last names of each and every one. Do you think that we try to collect compromising material on each and every single one of them? Well, it’s difficult to imagine on a bigger scale of this. Please disregard these issues and don’t think about this anymore again.

in other words "Trump wasn't important enough for me to care about".

We can blame the Russians some, but I doubt anyone there ever thought we'd be stupid enough to make this clown President.

Nah, they were just fucking with us. They hoped he'd cause a little mayhem. He was a "friend", helped out with money laundering etc

It was our brain damage that caused some critters to get up on their hind legs and vote for him . . . that's not the kind of thing a careful sober guy like Putin would have banked on.

[frank07]

Originally Posted by charliels531

Let me offer an "outrageous theory" that is making the rounds among retired counter-espionage folks.

For decades Soviet and now Russian intelligence services have tried, with varying degrees of success, to plant "sleepers" in various Western countries. That didn't work well, except in Britain with Kim Philby and his friends.

But in the 1980s the KGB took a different tack. They apparently compiled a list of somewhere between 1,000 and 10,000 Americans whom they considered to have promise to become influential over the next 20 years, influential enough to help the USSR and later Russia. They used their usual selection process: White native-born males with certain problems: Money problems, zipper problems, and ego problems. Some they approached directly, most they approached indirectly, through acquaintances.

That much is known. It is also known that Putin was a rising KGB star at the time.

What is not known is who was on the list. A few folks contacted the FBI after being approached, and a defector or two have confirmed the existence of the program, but they were not knowledgeable about the targets.

An obvious target was, of course, the hereditary rich native-born white male New Yorker with money troubles, zipper troubles, and ego troubles.

For me the tantalizing part is who else might be in the club. In 1984 a long-shot Kentucky lad who had serious money and ego problems was elected to the U.S. Senate. He was introduced to his prospective second wife whose father ran a shipping firm that smuggled cocaine by the deca-kilo and who solved his money problems.

How's that for an "outrageous theory"?

[charliels531]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Putin had a strangely dismissive comment when asked about Trump



in other words "Trump wasn't important enough for me to care about".

We assess that differently. I think Putin is the least reliable source when it comes to Putin's intentions and values.

We can blame the Russians some, but I doubt anyone there ever thought we'd be stupid enough to make this clown President.

Nah, they were just fucking with us. They hoped he'd cause a little mayhem. He was a "friend", helped out with money laundering etc

It was our brain damage that caused some critters to get up on their hind legs and vote for him . . . that's not the kind of thing a careful sober guy like Putin would have banked on.

There is a saying in U.S. electoral politics: "80% of what you do in a campaign is wasted effort. The problem is, we don't know which 80%."

The point of the KGB project wasn't to develop 1,000 or 10,000 assets. Given the investment of time and money in planting sleepers, if 2 or 3 of 1,000 paid off, it would be worth it.

[xenontrioxide]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Here's what's weird: Trump's soft touch on Putin isn't hidden. I don't get that. Its not how Putin would advise an agent he was running to behave.

This performance isn't puppetry. Trump _is_ writing his own script here. He's not just a traitor-- he's an enthusiastic one. He's not paling up to Putin because he _has_ to-- its because he's decided that, somehow, Putin is the maestro, and he _wants_ to serve him.

For a man who is otherwise so attached to his alpha-ness, he's weirdly servile with Putin.

People have been giving Trump the benefit of the doubt for three years, ever since he publicly invited the Russian intelligence services to find Hilary Clinton's missing emails. (THAT was tantamount to treason!) Unlike the lone spy trying hard avoid suspicion Trump has an entire apparatus covering up for him. The White House staff, Republicans in Congress, Fox News, thousands upon thousands of Trump disciples with laptops blasting "libertards" who criticize their Fuhrer.

And Trump has the best cover-story of all. he's the president of the United States. Robert Hanssen was a Russian spy for years in the FBI. Part of the reason he got away with it for as long as he did was that his FBI colleagues found it impossible to believe that one of their own was a traitor. They persecuted and destroyed the career of an innocent CIA officer because suspicion pointed to either him or Hanssen and it couldn't be Hanssen. (They actually reasoned that the lack of evidence against the CIA guy was proof that he was guilty!).

The former President of Ukraine was Putin's's man, quite openly siding with Russia's interests over Ukraine's while constantly denying he was a Russian puppet. Yet he fled to Moscow when the uprising happened, openly calling on Russia to help put him back in power and still denying he worked for Putin!

[jetpacksam]

[TedLars1]

Trump's Treason could have a much simpler explanation than he is a Russian asset; though both could be true.

I think Trump knows Mueller is uncovering and will uncover illegality surrounding Trump and his business dealings; probably involving Russians though not limited to Russia. Trump has decided on a strategy of saying government organizations, NSA, CIA, FBI etc, are all liars.

Trump is such a colossal narcissist he doesn't care about the harm he is doing to this country, European allies and all our institutions; Trump only cares about Trump!!!!

I have come to the conclusion that instead of the Mommy and Daddy parties, Democrats and Republicans should be called the Empathetic and Narcissistic Parties.

Trump is the "evolution" (Devo anybody?, de-evolution) of the Republican party. Each of their (your) presidents is more narcissistic than the last. Scary to think what is next?!!

[Arturo2nd]

There are over 2.7 million employees of the federal government. Administrations come and go, but the career employees roll on, mostly diligently performing their duties. Mr. Trump has taken aim at these folks. He plans to fire many, reduce wages and benefits, and eliminate longstanding workplace protections. It is unsurprising that the bureaucracy is fighting back. No long tenured federal worker wants to go job hunting in the private sector, which is why they put up with the low pay and myriad regulations of federal employment.

So, they are fighting back. Many agencies have powerful congressional sponsors from both parties. Furthermore, union employees have contracts and contracts are a sacrosanct feature of American law. Courts are loathe to overturn contracts and the Article One of the Constitution contains prohibits states from passing laws to abrogate them or Congress from passing ex post facto laws.

I have made no secret of my dislike for Mr. Trump. If he and his spawn are soon imprisoned, I will feel that justice has been done. Sadly, his fanatical followers will always believe that the "Deep State" got him despite many Republicans openly calling him out for treasonous behavior.

In the early days of the republic, he would have been hanged for some of his actions.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by charliels531

I think Putin is the least reliable source when it comes to Putin's intentions and values

I think exactly the opposite. He's straight and tells you what he thinks. Of course he knows more than he tells you, but he doesn't lie, he doesn't do BS and he doesn't do soundbites. If you you think you can call me on that, be my guest

You should hear his annual Q&A's, which last 3-4 hours or more and during which he takes hundreds of questions, some very sensitive. Quite often he appears on international TV panels to be "grilled" by outside journalists, and he never disappoints. In fact, sometimes he shames the journalists for their lack of knowledge. No Western politician comes anywhere close to Putin's level of inside or outside cross-examination on camera

No one has ever been able to prove him wrong. Of course, the West complains bitterly about Ukraine & Crimea, after they themselves started a coup in the country. But listen to his answers, and you'll get it completely -- it had nothing to do with aggression

[cicciobuki]

I hate to defend Trump, but those journalists are basically asking Trump if Putin is a crook while he is standing right next to him!


So what answers did they expect in that situation?

[xenontrioxide]

Originally Posted by cicciobuki

I hate to defend Trump, but those journalists are basically asking Trump if Putin is a crook while he is standing right next to him!


So what answers did they expect in that situation?

Answers that indicate that he was defending America's interests and not his own.


If you can't ask or answer awkward questions you cancel the goddamn meeting!