Holocaust:True Or False ?

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by Zidon

[....]

I have an insight more than most to both the holocaust and doings in Israel, and these references/comparisons between Nazis and Israel truly get to me, especially the ease with which it's done.

Did you all get to hear the Turkish PM Erdogan comparisons? not to mention his country did the Armenian Genocide.

[...]

Erdogan is well known for his occasional politically aberrations from time to time.
That's nothing, happened to Israel in particular.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by navvet

Among the first "holocaust deniers" was George Lincoln Rockwell. In March 1959 he founded the World Union of Free Enterprise National Socialists. In December 1959 he changed the name to the American Nazi Party. For the first few years of it's existence, membership was small, due to the fact that prospective members were reluctant to join an organization that supported the idea of murdering 6 million innocent people.

To get over this hurdle, Rockwell simply decided to deny that the holocaust ever occurred.

I think you'll find this is at the heart of most Holocaust deniers arguments.
They separate the initial political intent with which they may have agreed with along with millions of others from the actual deeds and horrendous crimes committed later once they had established a power base.
Hitler's rise to power was not unusual, the German people felt aggrieved at the time for many reasons including the terms of the WWI armistice and he exploited those concerns.

Many people have been compared to Hitler. Stalin and Mao were as bad but mostly killed their own citizens so were able to cover the scale of their crimes a lot easier.

Hitler and the Japanese were far worse as they exported their unprecedented reign of terror and cruelty across the globe. The Japanese as a nation supposedly value honour but their deeds during the 1930's and 1940's shattered that fake claim forever.

A denier will never be able to provide a shred of evidence to back up their claims. The facts are overwhelming, it's the sheer number of deaths and the inhuman brutality that was used that they are unable or unwilling to comprehend.

We have seen similar cruelty on smaller scales in other places such as the break up of Yugoslavia, sadly the capacity for such inhumanity probably lurks within us all, it just needs a catalyst.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_crimes

[rustler]

My father was amongst the first Allied soldiers to reach Bergen-Belsen. He did tell me a little about it, but not much.

The images from that camp are infamous, and horrendous.

As for the guards that were still there, I got the impression from my father that they shot many of them. He obviously never said as much, but reading between the lines that is the impression that I got.

The man who taught me to engrave metal in later years, was in the Tank Regiment, and he was one of the men who burnt Belsen down, using flames throwers on Churchill (?) tanks.

[summaluva]

Yes it did happen. I find it very disturbing that humans can do this to another just because they have different ethnicity or religion.
For me the most upsetting are the images of women and children being executed, such as the famous image of the mother trying desperately to shield her child while the soldier aims his rifle about to shoot.
Other images such as the Liepāja massacres where women and children were lined up on sand dunes near Šķēde and murdered.
There is no denying this happened and must never happen again!

[summaluva]

The SS were mainly responsible for the killing and running the camps and many German soldiers denied any knowledge or involvement, but this article says different.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-just-SS.html

I have no grudge or anything against the people of Germany, but I do have issue with Nazi ideology. So please no offence intended in posting the above link.

[Historian]

Originally Posted by Zidon

Santee, first off I truly appreciate your posts, and I'm thankful for this one…

I'm what's called second generation, my mother was there.

She's still alive.

She and her sister were hidden by an incredible aunt (which I met), the father managed to escape, the mother and rest of the siblings were destroyed by the Nazis.

...and there's the question answered in a nutshell. Within half-a-dozen pages of discussion of the topic by a random selection of members of a porn forum, we've already had several contributions from people whose parents, grandparents or other relatives know the truth only too well, because they were there, and saw it for themselves.

If it never happened, then presumably every single Holocaust survivor and their families, and every single Allied soldier who walked through the gates of a camp in 1945 and saw what had been done to the people in them, were part of the biggest confidence trick in the history of humanity- and if you believe that, then frankly your grip on reality is so slight that no amount of historical evidence or cold hard facts is ever going to convince you.

Of course it happened- all of the conspiracy theories beloved of the Holocaust deniers fall down on one simple fact- There are just far too many witnesses for it to have been anything other than the truth.

[SanteeFats]

Here a little about deniers:
Holocaust deniers are people and organisations who assert that the Holocaust did not occur, or that it did not occur in the historically recognized manner and extent. Holocaust denial goes beyond respected practices of historical revisionism to distort and deny history along preconceived notions, in what is called negationism.
Extermination camp research is difficult because of extensive attempts by the SS and Nazi regime to conceal the existence of the extermination camps. As a result of Sonderaktion 1005, camps were dismantled, records destroyed, and mass graves were dug up. Furthermore, extermination camps that remained uncleared were liberated by Soviet troops, who had different standards of documentation and openness than the Western allies. The existence of the extermination camps is firmly established by testimonies of camp survivors and Final Solution perpetrators, material evidence (the remaining camps, etc.), Nazi photographs and films of the killings, and camp administration records.
Holocaust deniers often start by pointing out legitimate public misconceptions about the extermination camps. For example, widely published images in America were mostly of typhoid victims and Soviet POWs at the Buchenwald and Dachau concentration camps – the first to be liberated by American troops and the most available imagery in America. In early news reports and for years afterwards these images were often used by the news media somewhat inaccurately in conjunction with descriptions of extermination camps and Jewish suffering. Holocaust deniers, after pointing out such common errors, put it forward as evidence that extermination camps did not exist and the limited evidence about them is mostly a hoax arising out of a deliberate Jewish conspiracy.
Holocaust denial is highly discredited by scholars and is a criminal offence in Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Poland, and Switzerland.
These people (?) must have truly the epitome of evil:
On 10 April 1941, the Independent State of Croatia (NDH) was established, supported by Nazi Germany and fascist Italy, and adopted similar racial and political doctrines. Camps were established by the fascist Ustaše government for contributing to the Nazi "final solution" to the "Jewish problem", the killing of Roma people and the elimination of political opponents, but most significantly to achieve the destruction of the Serbian population of the NDH.[11][12] The degree of cruelty with which the Serb population was persecuted shocked even the Germans.[13] The sadistic brutality of the Ustaše shocked even the Nazis.[14]

[dlnhank]

It happend! It´s a fact! It really scares me that today there still are those who don´t belive or deny that this has happend, that it is a fake and so on. We all have a responsibility to learn and educate coming generations about this, and hopefully something like this NEVER EVER happens again.

Sorry for the lousy English. I hope you understand what I say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_nFuJAF5F0

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by dlnhank

and hopefully something like this NEVER EVER happens again.

But on a much much smaller scale, it did, anyone remember this image that went round the world. 1990's in a civilized Europe



Not that in particular, but it's part of the reason I allowed the thread. It's still relevant, we haven't learned.

So if anyone thinks I should have removed the thread, have a serious think about the kind of world we live in, and lessons still to be learned.

[Lord Of The Sith]

There are many reasons to discuss this very topic. My father has a masters degree in history and always told me, "Those who know nothing of history are doomed to repeat it." We must always keep what the Nazi's did at the forefront so the world always remembers. We have seen horrible acts of genocide on much smaller scales since world war 2 (Bosnia for one) but they ARE still happening. Why, because people deny that it happed before and they deny when it happens in their own backyard.

This poem was written by Martin Niemoller:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

It truly tells the whole story of what happens when one party decides upon the extinction of another. The news stations in the United States today were talking about how ISSIS was beheading Christians in Mosul. The very kind of thing that deniers said never happened is beginning again.