"If he insults your mother, he should expect a punch." Is the Pope right? - Page 2

**LadyLuck** · January 16th, 2015, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumbo prawns

The second that you say that free speech is conditional or worse that it should/could result in violence, of any form, then it isn't really free speech anymore is it?

Free speech has never been truly unconditional. Recall the old adage about not being able to yell "Fire!" for no reason in a crowded movie theater. The right to free speech is just like any other right in that your rights end where another person's rights begin.

**howerd** · January 16th, 2015, 03:30 PM

The pope is desperate to create a false analogy. We know everyone has a mother - no person could exist if they didn't have one, but what about gods? Do we know any gods at all exist? Nope. There isn't any verifiable evidence for any deity ever proposed - but according to the pope we mustn't point out this very simple fact. Hmmmm... but if some god exists apparently we mustn't question it, -but why not??? People have rights ideas don't so therefore they're fair game. Nothing is 'sacred'. - If you disagree with me feel free to criticise!

**Mal Hombre** · January 16th, 2015, 05:10 PM

It seems to Me,That if God,Allah or Yahweh were really the omnipotent rulers of all creation,They wouldn't much care what French cartoonists or any other mere mortals said or drew about Them.What Frankie is basically saying is that it's ok to abuse human brings with feelings and failings but not some deity as far removed from us as We are from amoebas.

shagger · January 16th, 2015, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

It seems to Me,That if God,Allah or Yahweh were really the omnipotent rulers of all creation,They wouldn't much care what French cartoonists or any other mere mortals said or drew about Them.What Frankie is basically saying is that it's ok to abuse human brings with feelings and failings but not some deity as far removed from us as We are from amoebas.

there's nothing wrong with what frankie's saying we should respect religions

**brk549** · January 16th, 2015, 10:30 PM

Religion is like Ford and Chevy,football teams,politics or most anything else.If you think yours is the best and your loud mouthed about it you had better be able to take the flak your going to get back or you'll be fighting all the time.I wish that a lot more of the so called free press of the world had published the cartoons and it would have gone a long way to showing these guys how ridiculous they really are.Shine the light on them so the world can see.

jumbo prawns · January 17th, 2015, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyLuck

Free speech has never been truly unconditional. Recall the old adage about not being able to yell "Fire!" for no reason in a crowded movie theater. The right to free speech is just like any other right in that your rights end where another person's rights begin.

You might want to read about the fire in a theater argument. It is not really an adage, it was actually based on a real court case. U.S. v. Schenck, is not only one of the most odious free speech decisions in the US Court's history, but was overturned in 1969, over 40 years ago. It actually can be legal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater. The adage is baseless and confused.

In a free society the fewer limits there are to this right the safer and frankly more free we are. Think that a website like this would exist without this right?

Let me take a swing at some free speech. I think that the Charlie Hebdo magazine is a racist xenophobic pile of crap. I find much of what they print as grossly offensive. And they have the right to publish that in peace. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Oh and if you want everyone to see it, try to shut it down.

The murdering terrorists have done nothing other than turn a small 60,000 copy per issue magazine that almost no one knew about to a 3,000,000 per copy magazine that sells out in a few minutes. That and devastate at least 17 families.

**scoundrel** · January 17th, 2015, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shagger

there's nothing wrong with what frankie's saying we should respect religions

But we should not be shot for disrespecting religions.

The truth is that while we have reasoning powers we also have emotions and these can overpower our reason. It is dangerous to twist someone's tail on purpose. The story of Albert and the Lion remains a useful parable for modern times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKovQRzIQwI

darthwiggum2000 · January 17th, 2015, 04:02 AM

It's pretty obvious to me Francis was speaking colloquially -- i.e., if you play with matches, don't be surprised if you get burned.

And he's right.

**knobby109** · January 17th, 2015, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brk549

I'm a believer,not a very good one but I believe.I just can't buy into the story that we all came from two specks of dust that happened to bump into each other.No one can explain where the first two specks of dust came from.I don't think the Pope thought this out.Even though you should punch someone for bad things said about your mother,a lot of people might be equally offended if you tell them they are going to hell if they don't live like you.Being offended can't be the only excuse for anything.I should believe in turning the other cheek but I wouldn't be a good one to try it on.

If you can't work out where the specks of dust came from you will struggle to find out where a deity came from. Whatever path you choose it came from nothing.

**brk549** · January 17th, 2015, 03:54 PM

I'm not a Bible thumper obviously or I wouldn't be here.There is nothing better to me than a beautiful naked gal.It's easier for me to believe cause no one has ever been able to explain where the very first two specks of dust came from.I can't tell where everything I believe came from either so I guess were even on that.I do believe everyone should have the freedom to believe whatever they want and I believe you should be able to say what you think.These guys think you should think just like they do or you should die and I'm tired of being told to not lump them in to one basket.The one point whatever million Muslims of the world could stop this in it's tracks if they wanted to.

View Poll Results: This is reported as Pope Francis' comment on insulting religion. Is he right?
Yes	7	19.44%
No	21	58.33%
The guy is just a Master Debater.	5	13.89%
Can't he leave Mom out of this?	3	8.33%
Other	3	8.33%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

January 16th, 2015, 03:30 PM	#12
howerd Vintage Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: UK Posts: 1,731 Thanks: 2,663 Thanked 19,953 Times in 1,685 Posts	The pope is desperate to create a false analogy. We know everyone has a mother - no person could exist if they didn't have one, but what about gods? Do we know any gods at all exist? Nope. There isn't any verifiable evidence for any deity ever proposed - but according to the pope we mustn't point out this very simple fact. Hmmmm... but if some god exists apparently we mustn't question it, -but why not??? People have rights ideas don't so therefore they're fair game. Nothing is 'sacred'. - If you disagree with me feel free to criticise! __________________ Sex without love is an empty experience, but, as empty experiences go, it's one of the best. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by howerd; January 18th, 2015 at 12:23 AM..

January 16th, 2015, 05:10 PM	#13
Mal Hombre El Super Moderador Join Date: May 2009 Location: Adoptive Monkey Hanger Posts: 58,134 Thanks: 772,639 Thanked 855,706 Times in 57,565 Posts	It seems to Me,That if God,Allah or Yahweh were really the omnipotent rulers of all creation,They wouldn't much care what French cartoonists or any other mere mortals said or drew about Them.What Frankie is basically saying is that it's ok to abuse human brings with feelings and failings but not some deity as far removed from us as We are from amoebas. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. If in doubt, Just ask Yourself What Would Max Do ? It is a porn site,But its a Classy porn site. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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January 16th, 2015, 10:30 PM	#15
brk549 Vintage Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,122 Thanks: 20,220 Thanked 7,178 Times in 1,046 Posts	Religion is like Ford and Chevy,football teams,politics or most anything else.If you think yours is the best and your loud mouthed about it you had better be able to take the flak your going to get back or you'll be fighting all the time.I wish that a lot more of the so called free press of the world had published the cartoons and it would have gone a long way to showing these guys how ridiculous they really are.Shine the light on them so the world can see.

January 17th, 2015, 04:02 AM	#18
darthwiggum2000 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 28 Thanks: 4,034 Thanked 235 Times in 27 Posts	It's pretty obvious to me Francis was speaking colloquially -- i.e., if you play with matches, don't be surprised if you get burned. And he's right.

January 17th, 2015, 03:54 PM	#20
brk549 Vintage Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,122 Thanks: 20,220 Thanked 7,178 Times in 1,046 Posts	I'm not a Bible thumper obviously or I wouldn't be here.There is nothing better to me than a beautiful naked gal.It's easier for me to believe cause no one has ever been able to explain where the very first two specks of dust came from.I can't tell where everything I believe came from either so I guess were even on that.I do believe everyone should have the freedom to believe whatever they want and I believe you should be able to say what you think.These guys think you should think just like they do or you should die and I'm tired of being told to not lump them in to one basket.The one point whatever million Muslims of the world could stop this in it's tracks if they wanted to.