Militant Islamists

[BondJmsBond]

Originally Posted by shagger

I'm sorry I dont write long drawn out posts

LoL

History shmistory these Islamic extremists are the ones gunning for us now.
That's what we're dealing with.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by shagger

Neither does islam, its only a saudi wahabi disposition that insists on this, there are many similar things in the old testament, look at these interpretations of the talmud:

No, that's actually wrong. Flat wrong.

Saudia Arabia as a matter of law has the punishment for apostasy as death. That is not the law in Israel, nor in any Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, or Shinto nation. Its uniquely Muslim

As I noted, Deuteronomy certainly says some ferocious things-- none of which have been enforced since approximately 30 AD (when its was decided that life and death were matters for God to decide). I would fully concur that to have worshiped "false idols" in 100 BC Palestine might have brought down a punishment . . . but that was two thousand years ago. Not a problem today, yesterday, or tomorrow.

Real simple. You don't have to believe me-- try the Library of Congress' white paper on the issue, which I referenced previously. Its here: http://www.loc.gov/law/help/apostasy/index.php

In part:

Islamic Sharia’a is the law of the land in Saudi Arabia. The country has no penal code. One of the main sources of Islamic law is the hadith or ascribed sayings of the Prophet Mohamed. Islamic law imposes the death penalty on apostates based on the following statements attributed to the Prophet Mohamed in some hadith collections:

(1) “If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him[,]”[67] and
(2) “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam and leaves the Muslims.”[68]

Nothing about this is specific to Saudi: the following countries all make apostasy a capital crime:
Afghanistan, Brunei, Mauritania, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen

Indeed, Afghanistan was only narrowly prevented from executing someone for this, for the "crime" of converting to Christianity.

See "Afghanistan: HRW Still Concerned About Apostasy Law" for details
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1067197.html

And although Iran decided not to make apostasy a crime in the criminal code, they still execute people for it-- indeed, that's what the fatwa against Rushdie is about

Here's the official Iranian news agency's comment on the 25th anniversary of the fatwa

Imam Khomeini, as one of the supreme jurisprudents of his time, after evaluation of the reasons behind the writing of the satanic novel and its consequences in future for world Muslims, passed the death verdict against Rushdie. The Imam’s dynamic move was in complete accordance with the shari’a and all humanitarian laws, since the Rushdie had deliberately indulged in such devilry. Moreover, he deserved the death sentence as a person who was a Muslim, born of Muslim parents, before becoming an apostate.

{snip}

After the passing away of Imam Khomeini, his successor, the Leader of the Islamic Revolution, Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei, stressed the irrevocable nature of the death sentence against apostate Rushdie. [my bold]

http://english.irib.ir/analysis/arti...ostate-rushdie

Here's the "Iran Human Rights Documentation Center"'s report on "Apostasy in Iran"
http://www.iranhrdc.org/english/publ...c-of-iran.html

Note-- Iran and Saudi Arabia are about as different as they can be in their understanding of Islamic belief; they follow different traditions, different scholars, but the Iranians are every bit as bloody minded about ridda

So you can't logically attribute this to "only a saudi wahabi disposition that insists on this" as you do, since the Iranians are as far from Saudi and Wahhabism as its possible to be.

Only in the Muslim world do heads of State condemn people to death for apostasy-- and its hardly just Saudis, nor just Wahhabis, nor just Sunnis. Indeed, far from receding into a long ago more brutal history, more Muslim states are explicitly adopting this policy.

Take Malaysia, for example, which has such a measure before the Kelantan State Assembly as I write:

Originally Posted by Apostasy under Kelantan’s hudud carries the death penalty

he hudud bill to be tabled by Parti Islam Se-Malaysia (PAS) before the Kelantan State Assembly prescribes the death penalty for the offence of apostasy, the Malay Mail Online reports today.

The Syariah Criminal Code II 1993 classifies “intidah” and “riddah” as voluntary or deliberate pronouncements or utterances of words that violate a Muslim’s creed, known has aqidah.

These involve challenges to fundamental aspects of the Islamic faith of every Muslim, including Rukun Islam (Pillars of Islam), Rukun Iman (Pillars of Faith) and the distinction between halal and haram.

According to the report, the enactment does not define what would constitute a violation of Rukun Islam or Rukun Iman.

Under the proposed legislation, the immediate punishment for such an offence is imprisonment over a period to be determined by the Syariah Court “for the purpose of repentance.”

However, chillingly it goes on to say that if the offender fails to repent, the punishment may extend to execution.
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/cat...death-penalty/

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by shagger

I think we need to shut this thread down tbh, moderators can we please do this.

NO. Why are you so threatened by this thread? If you don't like this thread avoid it.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by Syria border arrests: Seized Briton is son of councillor

One of nine Britons detained in Turkey for allegedly trying to cross illegally into Syria has been named as the son of a Labour councillor.

Rochdale councillor Shakil Ahmed said he had thought his son Waheed, 22, was on a work placement in Birmingham.

Evidently that "work placement" is a bit farther afield . . . and Rochdale, wasn't that where . . . gosh, better not to say. Not exactly a community that's covered itself in glory, lets leave it at that.

In a statement, Mr Ahmed said he wanted his son to come home "as soon as possible so I can find out what's going on".

"My son is a good Muslim and his loyalties belong to Britain, so I don't understand what he's doing there," he said.

Took a wrong turn? That's it. Yes, his "loyalties belong to Britain", yes they do. He was just driving from Rochdale to his work assignment in Birmingham, got on the M6, must have missed his turnoff . . .

[forfucksake]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

No, neither Christian nor Jewish law require that apostates be put to death. Find where Jesus says "if you don't follow me, you'll be put to death, or if you abandon Christianity, you'll be put to death". It just ain't there. Its not Jewish religious law, its not Israeli law, its not Canon law. Deutoronomy did say fairly ferocious things about apostasy, but several thousand years ago, Jews decided that, as a matter of law, they were going to ignore it, which they have for two thousand years (capital punishment generally was abolished by the Sanhedrin in the year 30; Israel has capital punishment, but not for religious crimes)
.

Have you possibly heard of the westboro baptistchurch?

[Tarkus666]

Originally Posted by BondJmsBond

History shmistory these Islamic extremists are the ones gunning for us now.
That's what we're dealing with.

You're far more likely in the US to be killed by a fellow disgruntled fellow American than a terrorist and if by a terrorist then a home grown Soveriegnist and not someone from ISIS etc.

[Tarkus666]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Took a wrong turn? That's it. Yes, his "loyalties belong to Britain", yes they do. He was just driving from Rochdale to his work assignment in Birmingham, got on the M6, must have missed his turnoff . . .

I suppose in fairness how many times do we see neighbours of the serial rapist/killer who has been discovered with a dungeon in his basement and 15 unmarked graves say "oh he seemed like such a nice and normal guy?"

I am not entirely sure why we go to such efforts to arrest/punish people for going to join ISIS etc. Just as long as it is clear that they can never come back.

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by forfucksake

Have you possibly heard of the westboro baptistchurch?

You are talking about one stupid preacher and his poorly led "flock". His idea(s) are NOT embraced by the Baptist's nor as far as I know any other "Christian" sect. The Islamist laws and actions are embraced by the religious leaders with support from the "state" (?). This makes it a totally different scenario, IMO.

[Dr Pepper]

Originally Posted by Tarkus666

You're far more likely in the US to be killed by a fellow disgruntled fellow American than a terrorist and if by a terrorist then a home grown Soveriegnist and not someone from ISIS etc.

How about in Kenya? or Nigeria? or several other places......or don't they matter?

[shagger]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

Why is this a pointless thread? There are over 500 posts that discuss this minus yours shagger. If you think it is pointless do not view it or post on it.

Its pointless because its sensationalist in that its designed to provoke a reaction and is offensive to those that are religious such as myself, albeit not a muslim.

I feel that you're just out to pick a fight and in actual fact are doing nothing more than picking on a subdivision of society that are already demonised unfairly.

It also goes against the spirit of the board, where next, shall we pick on jews, or lets really shout bingo and go for "black people: Am I wrong?", it really is a kind of shameful racism based on small minded naive hatred of a religion and not on fact, don't kid yourself that it is.