The Military History Thread

[palo5]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

Today is the day the Germans called the black day of the German Army. The battle of Amiens had begun.

Which Germans? Amiens was a relatively small battle

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by palo5

Which Germans? Amiens was a relatively small battle

The dead ones???

[haroldeye]

Some chap called Ludendorf said it Palo. I suspect he knew what he was talking about as he was one of the senior German Commanders.

[Ennath]

August 9, 1942
Operation Pedestal

A key Allied possession in the Mediterranean, Malta provided a base for attacking Axis supply convoys to North Africa. Effectively under siege, the island’s fuel and food reserves were badly depleted by the summer of 1942. Following two failures to resupply the island in June, Malta’s air commander, Air Vice Marshal Keith Park, a veteran of the Battle of Britain, informed London that only a few weeks of aviation fuel remained for his aircraft. In an effort to alleviate the situation, the Admiralty began planning for a new operation to transport supplies to Malta.

Named Operation Pedestal, this new effort was overseen by Vice Adm. Edward Syfret and called for a force of 2 battleships, 3 aircraft carriers, 7 cruisers, and 32 destroyers to support the convoy. Comprised of 14 merchant vessels, the relief convoy was centered on the fast tanker SS Ohio. As insurance against the tanker’s loss, other vessels in the convoy carried aviation fuel as part of their cargo. Syfret’s plan called for the majority of the capital ships, dubbed Force Z, to provide distant cover while the bulk of the cruisers and destroyers, Force X, provided close protection for the convoy. Once the convoy reached the Strait of Sicily, Force Z would retire to Gibraltar and allow Force X to escort the ships into Malta.

Aware that the Allies were planning to resupply Malta, Field Marshal Albert Kesselring of the Luftwaffe and Adm. Alberto da Zara of the Regia Marina began making plans to oppose the Allied force. While Kesselring intended to mount an intense series of air attacks, da Zara ordered a force of submarines to attack the convoy. These efforts would be supported by a force of cruisers and destroyers which would sortie to finish off any remaining Allied vessels. As these preparations moved forward, Royal Navy ships began rendezvousing in the Atlantic. Flying his flag from the battleship HMS Nelson, Syfret oversaw the entire Pedestal force as well as Force Z. Command of Force X was given to Rear Adm. Harold Burrough aboard the light cruiser HMS Nigeria. In conjunction with Operation Pedestal, the carrier HMS Furious was tasked with conducing Operation Bellows which called for it to ferry Spitfires to Malta.

After conducting brief training in the Atlantic, the convoy and its escorts passed through the Strait of Gibraltar on August 9. After the convoy refueled before dawn on August 11, the old carrier HMS Eagle came under attack from U-73 early that afternoon. Hit by 4 torpedoes, the carrier began listing and sank about 70 miles south of Cape Salinas. As Eagle was sinking, Furious launched 37 Spitfires which flew on to Malta. Its mission complete, Furious and its escorts retired to Gibraltar. En route, the destroyer HMS Wolverine sank the Italian submarine Dagabur. Through the course of the day, the convoy and its escorts endured 5 major air attacks. These saw a merchant ship and a destroyer hit as well as the flight deck of HMS Indomitable damaged.

Pressing on the next day, the convoy’s escorts sank the Italian submarine Cobalto and chased off several more. Passing near enemy bases in Sardinia and Sicily, the convoy came under air attack throughout the day on August 12. The first raid consisted of 19 German Ju-88 bombers. Met by carrier-based fighters, they were repelled with a loss of 6 aircraft. A second raid around noon saw Indomitable’s flight deck rendered inoperable and fires break out around the ship. This loss left HMS Victorious as Syfret’s only operational carrier. As the convoy neared the Strait of Sicily, Syfret elected to withdraw Force Z 20 minutes early due the damage sustained by Victorious. With Force Z turning for Gibraltar at 6:55 PM, Burrough and Force X pressed on with the convoy.

While the Allied ships were coming under air attack during the day, the Italian surface force, consisting of the heavy cruisers Gorizia, Bolzano, and Trieste and light cruisers Eugenio di Savoia, Raimondo Montecuccoli, and Muzio Attendolo, put to sea with a group of 17 destroyers. Around 8:00 PM, the convoy was attacked by the Italian submarine Axum. Firing a spread of 4 torpedoes, it sank the old light cruiser HMS Cairo and scored hits on Nigeria and Ohio. The timing proved poor for Allied forces as the convoy was in the process of changing formation. Learning of the attack, Syfret sent three Force Z destroyers to reinforce Burrough . As the convoy and its escorts attempted to regain their formation they came under attack from enemy aircraft.

In the course of the attack, the destroyer Foresight was mortally wounded and the freighter Empire Hope sunk. As the attack subsided, Burrough transferred his flag to the destroyer Ashanti and the damaged Nigeria departed for Gibraltar. After darkness fell, the convoy was attacked by German and Italian torpedo boats. Making numerous attacks through the night, they sank the merchant vessels Wairangi, Almeria Lykes, and Glenorchy. A fourth, RochesterCastle, was damaged. In the course of the fighting Italian torpedo boats crippled the light cruiser HMS Manchester which led to its crew scuttling the ship.

After dawn on August 13, Axis air attacks against the convoy resumed. A bomb from a Ju-88 destroyed the freighter Waimarama when it detonated the ship’s deck cargo of aviation fuel. This raid was followed by a group of 60 Ju-87 Stuka dive bombers. Focusing their efforts on Ohio they damaged its hull plates with near misses. Around 10:50 AM, the ship was rendered powerless when 2 bombs straddled the ship causing boiler damage. Around the stricken tanker, Axis aircraft succeeded in sinking the freighter Dorset and starting fires on HMS Kenya. Enduring the onslaught, the freighters Port Chalmers, RochesterCastle, and Melbourne Star drove forward and soon were met by an escort from Malta. Covered by the island’s aircraft, they reached Valletta at 6:00 PM.

As air attacks continued, the destroyer Penn attempted to take Ohiounder tow. These efforts failed due to Ohio’s severe list and bomb hit which broke the tanker's keel. While the convoy struggled forward, a disagreement ensued between Kesselring and the Regia Marina. Unwilling to provide the Italian ships with air cover, the German leader threw his all of forces against the convoy. Lacking air support and fearful of British aircraft at Malta, the Italian cruiser force turned back and sailed for Messina. Passing the submarine HMS Unbroken, Bolzano was torpedoed and forced aground while Muzio Attendolo lost part of its bow.

Early on August 14, the damaged freighter Brisbane Star limped into Valletta. To the rear, Force X struggled to save Ohio. After enduring an attack by 20 aircraft which destroyed Ohio’s rudder and holed the stern, Force X was able to begin moving the ship forward. This was accomplished with Penn and the destroyer Ledbury supporting the tanker’s sides and the minesweeper Rye stabilizing the stern. Though this awkward formation was interrupted during several additional air strikes, Force Z succeeded in dragging Ohioto Valletta and entered the Grand Harbor at 9:30 AM on August 15.

Though the convoy and Royal Navy sustained heavy losses, Operation Pedestal proved a strategic success as the supplies that arrived, most importantly Ohio’s fuel cargo, allowed the island to continue resisting. In the fighting during Operation Pedestal, the Allies lost a carrier, 2 light cruisers, a destroyer, and 9 merchantmen. Casualties numbered 350-400 killed. Axis losses numbered 42 aircraft downed, 2 submarines sunk, and 2 cruisers damaged. As 1942 progressed, Allied forces operating from Malta proved highly effective at disrupting Axis convoys to North Africa and deprived Rommel of badly needed supplies and reinforcements, contributing greatly to his defeat at El Alamein.

[Ennath]

78 BC
Revolt of Lepidus

Marcus Aemilius Lepidus gained wealth and power by politically allying himself with Sulla, but once the dictator had resigned in 79 BC, Lepidus attempted to undermine the Sullan constitution. He was elected consul for the year 78 BC with the support of Pompey, and tried to stop Sulla from being buried in the Campus Martius. However, Pompey turned against his candidate and used his influence to ensure that the full funeral and burial went ahead. Lepidus passed several resolutions during his term that firmly placed him in the camp of the populares. He offered to restore land that had been taken by Sulla to the Italians. This put him at odds with his fellow consul, Quintus Lutatius Catulus.

The simmering discontent caused by Sulla’s expropriations in many parts of the Italian countryside boiled over in Etruria, one of the worst hit areas. The Sullan colonists at Faesule were attacked by men who had lost their land, and in some cases their citizen rights as well. The Senate was sufficiently alarmed to send both consuls to suppress the violence. What happened next is obscure, but Lepidus appears to have put himself at the head of the insurgents and clashed with Catulus, who was equally prepared to resort to force to defeat him. But instead of giving Catulus firm backing, the Senate imposed an oath to keep the peace on both men and, to placate Lepidus and get him out of Italy, took the dangerous step of assigning him Transalpine Gaul, and probably Cisalpine Gaul as well. No doubt, many senators could not face the prospect of another civil war and the possible loss of their newly restored authority.

Soon, though, feeling it had humored Lepidus enough, the Senate summoned him to Rome to hold the consular elections. Instead, Lepidus marched on the city at the head of a rebel army and issued a demand for an immediate second consulship. As a would-be dictator, he was not impressive. It was true that he had hereditary ties in Cisalpine Gaul which needed to be suppressed before he could gain control there and perhaps establish a link with the rebel Sertorius in Spain, but the actual task of suppression should not have seemed forbidding. His makeshift forces, though numerous, had little in the way of training or organization. Yet, so haunted was the Senate by the specter of civil war that some senators were in favor of coming to terms.

There were no consuls to give the Senate a lead, because even though the year had turned, elections had still not been held. It was left to Lucius Philippus to rally opinion and propose the senatus consultum ultimum ( a form of martial law), under which Catulus, as proconsul, was charged with putting down his erstwhile colleague. The Senate also appointed a second commander to assist Catulus - Pompey, whose probable calculation of his own advantage was proved correct. His exact position is uncertain, whether as Catulus’ legate or in independent command.

As Lepidus continued his march on Rome, Catulus and Pompey occupied the Mulvian Bridge and the Janiculum. Here a battle was fought; the details are unknown, but Lepidus was forced to retreat. Only at this stage was he declared hostis (a public enemy). Lepidus made his way back to Etruria, pursued by Catulus, while Pompey headed for Cisalpine Gaul. Here Pompey besieged Lepidus’ lieutenant Marcus Brutus at Mutina. Brutus, perhaps deserted by his men, surrendered and was soon afterwards put to death. Pompey then drove the remnant of Brutus’ forces as far as Liguria, where Lepidus’ son Scipio was captured and killed at Alba Pompeia. He then returned to Etruria to join Catulus in a final battle against Lepidus at Cosa. Defeated once more, Lepidus sought refuge in Sardinia, where he shortly afterwards fell ill and died. Those of his men who did not disperse were taken to Spain by Marcus Perperna to join Sertorius.

With the rising finished, Catulus ordered Pompey to disband his troops, but Pompey refused; he did not want to take power, but to take his army to Spain and win further glory in the war there. The Senate complied.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

Some chap called Ludendorf said it Palo. I suspect he knew what he was talking about as he was one of the senior German Commanders.

Oh, that German. He's known to have twisted quite a lot in his memoirs to justify himself. Then he went and joined Hitler's crowd. I wish someone had told me it was him who said it -- then I could have ignored it, because the Germans know perfectly well why they lost that war, and it certainly wasn't because of Amiens

[haroldeye]

No it wasn't because of Amiens. But Amiens saw German units surrendering as units for the first time, saw the allies advance further in a few hours than they had in the previous few years.

Amiens was the start of the German collapse, they knew they had shot their bolt when the Kaiserschlact failed. With the Americans streaming into France, starvation on the home front and the Empire and French troops showing every sign of aggressive resurgence only the most stupid of German thought victory still possible.

Course Palo you know better.

[haroldeye]

The story of Ohio is one of the greats of WW2. The crew abandoned the ship several times but volunteered to go back and sail on. Ohio was so badly damaged that she could not be towed for fear of her rolling over so she was strapped to two destroyers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Ohio

[palo5]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

No it wasn't because of Amiens...

Course Palo you know better.

Well, I can see why you might want to believe otherwise. But from a German standpoint, the presence of millions of Americans and hundreds of thousands more coming every month was something they had no answer to, no hope of winning or even stalemating against. If you see it from their point-of-view, everything becomes much clearer, imho

Without the Americans, Germany almost certainly would have won WW1, at least as far as the western front was concerned. It might even have been better for the world, when you consider what followed

[Mal Hombre]

Originally Posted by palo5

Without the Americans, Germany almost certainly would have won WW1, at least as far as the western front was concerned

Well, The Western Front was all there was really,the Turks were finished,The Austrians in Italy were just about gone too..But by that time Russia had already surrendered...