Weaponry; Discussion of Rights and Responsibilities - Page 75

**SanteeFats** · February 15th, 2019, 09:12 PM

BREAKING news -- a cure for the assault rifle problem!!!!!

The newest --A Salt Rifle.

**Rogerbh** · February 16th, 2019, 03:28 AM

This case was noticeable in California.

https://www.bakersfield.com/news/wea...a569d1fdd.html

Apparently the DOJ agents don't have access to the database. A part of the case not really discussed here is that the "suppressors" listed on his charges were not suppressors or silencers like the DOJ/media had claimed. The weapons supposedly were in legal configuration until the DOJ agents changed them into illegal configurations. This is admitted by the DOJ. The reason for the warrant to search the house was found to be not true/fraudulent. It is no wonder the prosecution wants to drop the charges. Now the fight will be about getting his weapons back - after the DOJ changed them to illegal configurations.

I wonder how much this is costing the guy? It is said he is wealthy so I guess he could afford a good attorney. I wonder how many less wealthy people have plead to lesser charges to get out of similar "problems"?

**Rogerbh** · March 6th, 2019, 10:17 AM

Here is a video I missed when it first came out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX4Z...ature=youtu.be

The lady deputy was very lucky, even though I knew it contained a gunfight, the first shot surprised me.

That piece of shit had been deported three times previously. Among his many arrests, he had ICE detainers in 2014, 2015 and 2016. Each time Napa Country Jail did not honor them and released this asshole. https://napavalleyregister.com/news/...iderail-latest

I am glad the deputy killed him.

**Rogerbh** · March 6th, 2019, 06:48 PM

Regarding the BLM movement, I was wondering if there was ever a study of how many times on average - a black suspect was able to outrun the police. I am guessing it is 95% or more for those who choose to run.

The fact that most of the shooting videos show them running at first, like the Sacramento shooting when the black teen dressed in dark clothes ran into the dark area of his grandparents lot at night after he couldn't open the back door - only found because a police helicopter had tracked him to that place - makes me wonder how many times he had outrun the police before.

Running, not obeying orders, having objects in your hands - raises tensions - means you will be shot by the police. In my mind, regardless of race.

The police have supposedly stated that property crimes are going up because criminals believe that property crimes result in no time served. The more criminals, the more chases, the more deaths. No end in sight.

**diamelsx** · March 7th, 2019, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

Regarding the BLM movement, I was wondering if there was ever a study of how many times on average - a black suspect was able to outrun the police. I am guessing it is 95% or more for those who choose to run.

The fact that most of the shooting videos show them running at first, like the Sacramento shooting when the black teen dressed in dark clothes ran into the dark area of his grandparents lot at night after he couldn't open the back door - only found because a police helicopter had tracked him to that place - makes me wonder how many times he had outrun the police before.

Running, not obeying orders, having objects in your hands - raises tensions - means you will be shot by the police. In my mind, regardless of race.

The police have supposedly stated that property crimes are going up because criminals believe that property crimes result in no time served. The more criminals, the more chases, the more deaths. No end in sight.

the Supreme Court spoke on this back in 85 in Tennessee V Garner and they said

Quote:

Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985),[2] is a civil case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that, under the Fourth Amendment, when a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect, the officer may not use deadly force to prevent escape unless "the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." It was found that use of deadly force to prevent escape is an unreasonable seizure under the Fourth Amendment, in the absence of probable cause that the fleeing suspect posed a physical danger.

**Rogerbh** · March 7th, 2019, 03:49 AM

Law enforcement that I have spoken to say "better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6" - if they have a reasonable fear - and possibly even if it bends more to unreasonable - the average citizen is going to give the benefit of the doubt to the policeman - mainly because we want people in that job.

If you run from the police, ignore their orders, and have things in your hand - you are going to get killed - no matter what the Supreme Court says. Your family may get some money from a judgement, but you will be shot - probably many times - and will bleed out as they secure the scene.

**diamelsx** · March 7th, 2019, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

Law enforcement that I have spoken to say "better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6"

If the suspect is fleeing how are you going to be carried by 6 unless you catch a heart attack giving Chase?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

If you run from the police, ignore their orders, and have things in your hand - you are going to get killed - no matter what the Supreme Court says. Your family may get some money from a judgement, but you will be shot - probably many times - and will bleed out as they secure the scene.

So the people have to follow the cop's orders but the cops don't have to follow the Supreme Court's orders? How does that work? If you're not going to follow the rules about shooting a fleeing suspect what makes you think they're going to not shoot if you stand still? Better being a moving Target than a stationary one.

**Rogerbh** · March 7th, 2019, 06:34 PM

From what I have seen on videos, they often get shot when they turn, either still running or stopping and do not drop what they have in their hands.

A police office can choose between this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=884W4l3eoQg

and this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl9btptHU04

and you can see why suspects are shot. No matter how much people complain about police being trigger happy, I don't see it changing.

Don't run, hands in the air, do what the police say. Otherwise you will eat lead.

My brother, an Asian, said the only time he was ever ordered to lie face down in the street was when he was traveling in a car with three Army buddies - all black - and their car got pulled over in LA. The police checked them out, stated they were looking for four men in a similar car - and released them.

Later when my brother said how that was a new experience for him, the other three stated that happens all the time to them. Shitty fact of life for a young black male in the US.

**diamelsx** · March 7th, 2019, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

From what I have seen on videos, they often get shot when they turn, either still running or stopping and do not drop what they have in their hands.

here's a video of what can happen if you do follow their orders

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

A police office can choose between this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=884W4l3eoQg

and this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl9btptHU04

and you can see why suspects are shot. No matter how much people complain about police being trigger happy, I don't see it changing.

the guy that second video if the cops have the gun on you already and he tell you to drop your weapon that you currently do not have your hand on are you going to actually reach for that weapon to drop it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

Don't run, hands in the air, do what the police say. Otherwise you will eat lead.

When the cops are operating under the "Better to be Tried by 12 than carried by 6 mentality" compliance may not save you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

Later when my brother said how that was a new experience for him, the other three stated that happens all the time to them. Shitty fact of life for a young black male in the US.

what about the Latino males in the Native American males? And not to leave out the females you know they have a lot of me too moments in police encounters.

**Rogerbh** · March 7th, 2019, 11:37 PM

There is no audio, can't hear any orders, he dropped his hands - unsure if he was following what they said. Doesn't look like a defensible shoot for the police. Don't see why they felt it was necessary to shoot.

That second video reference, the guy never stopped running, didn't say anything regarding giving up, getting shot reaching for his weapon - seemed like a good shoot. I don't see situations like this ever changing.

Guys who run from police, don't drop what they are holding, make sudden moves - they are going to die.....and the police will likely not be charged. Do you think that police should not chase subjects.....only fire if they get shot at first? Can't really see people lining up to be police if they have to get shot at first before they can return fire.

As to consensual sex when you are under arrest, that is laughable.

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February 15th, 2019, 09:12 PM	#741
SanteeFats Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Santee, Ca Posts: 60,813 Thanks: 281,805 Thanked 813,782 Times in 60,861 Posts	BREAKING news -- a cure for the assault rifle problem!!!!! The newest --A Salt Rifle.

February 16th, 2019, 03:28 AM	#742
Rogerbh Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Land of the free within reasonable limitations Posts: 10,901 Thanks: 50,521 Thanked 91,172 Times in 10,749 Posts	This case was noticeable in California. https://www.bakersfield.com/news/wea...a569d1fdd.html Apparently the DOJ agents don't have access to the database. A part of the case not really discussed here is that the "suppressors" listed on his charges were not suppressors or silencers like the DOJ/media had claimed. The weapons supposedly were in legal configuration until the DOJ agents changed them into illegal configurations. This is admitted by the DOJ. The reason for the warrant to search the house was found to be not true/fraudulent. It is no wonder the prosecution wants to drop the charges. Now the fight will be about getting his weapons back - after the DOJ changed them to illegal configurations. I wonder how much this is costing the guy? It is said he is wealthy so I guess he could afford a good attorney. I wonder how many less wealthy people have plead to lesser charges to get out of similar "problems"?

March 6th, 2019, 10:17 AM	#743
Rogerbh Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Land of the free within reasonable limitations Posts: 10,901 Thanks: 50,521 Thanked 91,172 Times in 10,749 Posts	Here is a video I missed when it first came out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX4Z...ature=youtu.be The lady deputy was very lucky, even though I knew it contained a gunfight, the first shot surprised me. That piece of shit had been deported three times previously. Among his many arrests, he had ICE detainers in 2014, 2015 and 2016. Each time Napa Country Jail did not honor them and released this asshole. https://napavalleyregister.com/news/...iderail-latest I am glad the deputy killed him.

March 6th, 2019, 06:48 PM	#744
Rogerbh Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Land of the free within reasonable limitations Posts: 10,901 Thanks: 50,521 Thanked 91,172 Times in 10,749 Posts	Regarding the BLM movement, I was wondering if there was ever a study of how many times on average - a black suspect was able to outrun the police. I am guessing it is 95% or more for those who choose to run. The fact that most of the shooting videos show them running at first, like the Sacramento shooting when the black teen dressed in dark clothes ran into the dark area of his grandparents lot at night after he couldn't open the back door - only found because a police helicopter had tracked him to that place - makes me wonder how many times he had outrun the police before. Running, not obeying orders, having objects in your hands - raises tensions - means you will be shot by the police. In my mind, regardless of race. The police have supposedly stated that property crimes are going up because criminals believe that property crimes result in no time served. The more criminals, the more chases, the more deaths. No end in sight.

March 7th, 2019, 03:49 AM	#746
Rogerbh Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Land of the free within reasonable limitations Posts: 10,901 Thanks: 50,521 Thanked 91,172 Times in 10,749 Posts	Law enforcement that I have spoken to say "better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6" - if they have a reasonable fear - and possibly even if it bends more to unreasonable - the average citizen is going to give the benefit of the doubt to the policeman - mainly because we want people in that job. If you run from the police, ignore their orders, and have things in your hand - you are going to get killed - no matter what the Supreme Court says. Your family may get some money from a judgement, but you will be shot - probably many times - and will bleed out as they secure the scene.

March 7th, 2019, 06:34 PM	#748
Rogerbh Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Land of the free within reasonable limitations Posts: 10,901 Thanks: 50,521 Thanked 91,172 Times in 10,749 Posts	From what I have seen on videos, they often get shot when they turn, either still running or stopping and do not drop what they have in their hands. A police office can choose between this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=884W4l3eoQg and this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl9btptHU04 and you can see why suspects are shot. No matter how much people complain about police being trigger happy, I don't see it changing. Don't run, hands in the air, do what the police say. Otherwise you will eat lead. My brother, an Asian, said the only time he was ever ordered to lie face down in the street was when he was traveling in a car with three Army buddies - all black - and their car got pulled over in LA. The police checked them out, stated they were looking for four men in a similar car - and released them. Later when my brother said how that was a new experience for him, the other three stated that happens all the time to them. Shitty fact of life for a young black male in the US.

March 7th, 2019, 11:37 PM	#750
Rogerbh Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Land of the free within reasonable limitations Posts: 10,901 Thanks: 50,521 Thanked 91,172 Times in 10,749 Posts	There is no audio, can't hear any orders, he dropped his hands - unsure if he was following what they said. Doesn't look like a defensible shoot for the police. Don't see why they felt it was necessary to shoot. That second video reference, the guy never stopped running, didn't say anything regarding giving up, getting shot reaching for his weapon - seemed like a good shoot. I don't see situations like this ever changing. Guys who run from police, don't drop what they are holding, make sudden moves - they are going to die.....and the police will likely not be charged. Do you think that police should not chase subjects.....only fire if they get shot at first? Can't really see people lining up to be police if they have to get shot at first before they can return fire. As to consensual sex when you are under arrest, that is laughable.