Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[rosestone]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

so a few million people may prove they can type their e-mail address and press an enter button, that is no substitute for not voting on the day.

I agree. The vote didn't go the way I wanted, but everybody thinks they're right, it doesn't make you special.

I met a couple of people yesterday who were lamenting not voting. Too late now. No point bitching about it.

[Roger Allott]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

A Scottish application for EU membership will still be vetoed by Spain due to fears of Catalan and Basque independence.

Logical consistency isn't big in Spain, as is demonstrated by their whining about Gibraltar being British but not associating that with the similarly historical/colonial status of Ceuta and Melilla.

.

[Gladys Allova]

Family Guy : James Bond
50 Nos & 1 Yes, means Yes

[Brecht]

Looking at the hysteria coming from EU establishment circles and their propaganda mouthpieces in media, I can sympathize with the Leave voters. Like I said in my previous comment, the EU has become an undemocratic behemoth run by bankers and their aides in politics. The people of Europe do not feel represented by the EU and its institutions and the British were the first to send that message clearly. It's still too early to have a better picture about the consequences but Britain's economy is not going to crash for good just because it's no longer politically tied to the EU. The business elites in Europe won't tolerate a disruption in the transfer of goods and capital with Britain (and vice versa). There are many agreements between the UK and the EU (trade agreements included) that have been in effect for decades and that simply won't change.

But my concern lies elsewhere. As we know this referendum is the result of the political ambitions of a group of individuals within the Tory camp. This includes the UKIP, even though you might think of them as a separate political option. However they're nothing but Thatcherite right-wingers and if they take over, you'll be worse off. If Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Nigel Farage and the likes become icons of British "independence", you'll have a lot to worry about. In this case the Scottish will have every right to leave the UK. I wish Jeremy Corbyn was (more) pro-Leave to become a people's alternative to Johnson and Farage. It seems like he wasn't pro-Remain enough either which is why the other Labour MPs try to get rid of him once again. Voting to leave may be the best choice for Britain but who is going to benefit? The working people whose life standards have been declining for over 3 decades (especially in the north) or a minority of Thatcherite free-market fanatics who want to pursue the same EU economic policy on their own.

[Nobody1]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

A Scottish application for EU membership will still be vetoed by Spain due to fears of Catalan and Basque independence.

Scottish oil and natural gas will be the deciding factor. We have an energy problem. The (illegal) sanctions policy against Russia puts us under pressure and the US can not help since the ME is still burning. Energy projects are not safe there. Not even in the near future. It is also very questionable how long Spain will remain a member state. Austerity has its price.

Catalonia and the Basque country could exploit their geographical position in form of transit rights in case of a Spexit. I think the EU must take what they can get. But this assumption is highly speculative.

[shadow93b]

For a European people can be strong, there must be solidarity and we can test it only in adversity. We saw what it gave with Greece some time ago. But most importantly, that it is democratic (I am not speaking here of being left or right;. Equality is much more than this shortcut without interest), it is especially necessary build a social Europe where pillars that make a society is stable are created: social, fiscal, medical, education and major technological projects and / or equipment.

Of course the political game and alliances making we going straight into the wall and this without mentioning the US lobbies game that loads well destabilize Europe somewhat embarrassing for the benefit of their economies and the Chinese who likewise.

But here I am confined me to Europe. If I spoke of wild emmigration is that our own borders are so poorly guarded by the riparian countries are not always up to the danger, some may surreptitiously spread terror, fear and hatred.

When we see that we are not even willing to show solidarity towards a country of the Eupopean community, we are entitled to ask: But what is it that this Europe?

For the French referendum "for or against", I voted "no" because nothing essential rules was making for every citizens. When we think that some Spain or Romania people migrate to France for simply better living or English people come to France for cheaper medical care, we are entitled to laugh. A one ever saw it in the US ??? I think not ! Also, I like to remember that "an ally" does not mean "a friend".

He who first enunciated this concepte was an Arab, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". No luck, he ended under the blade of his "friend".

Too bad I'm not a whiz in English because I have a lot to say. For example ...

The people are not enemies, only their leaders are!


Therefore, I understand the reaction of the English and their choice. Although it is already a very independent people by nature. They demonstrate that I tried to explain here.

Sorry for my very bad english.

Note: Sorry if I hit the thought of some. It was not my goal, and I apologize in advance.

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

You must consider the cause & effect relationship !

A) France (Sarcozy) & Great Britain (Cameron) (with a little help of our "US-friends") have bombarded Libya and blow away Gaddafi.

The country went to a fail state, without any rights an humanity.

The result of it was washed up at the coasts of Italy.

B) Next lesson was Syria, were the British MI6 and the US - CIA destabilized the country and armed (with light arms) Terror Groups in order to wipe out Al-Assad. Turkey delivered the rest of the arms ..... the result is already known, an other failed state, now it's citizens went to the Greek Boarders in Europe.

Not to forget: Angela Merkel declared this "Bazar" open last summer and millions of refugees (not migrants) were flooding Europe.

Cause & effect, got me ??

[Gladys Allova]

Brecht, you speak a lot of sense and it will be the less well off who will no doubt suffer the harshest as they do in every political change I can recall thru successive governments & back to decimalisation.
At least our voting to leave allows Britons the option to vote out the overseers & law-makers when we see fit to do so Just like back in the days of democracy? We haven't had that option while being tighter & tighter bound into EU rhetoric & law, that is why the issue of immigration embarrassingly took the lead in many peoples' minds. I believe that is why the vote leaned to out, not only to shrug off some of the binds & enforced quotas.
Europe has been a great advance for Britain, we were 'the Dirty old man of Europe' (at least regarding our emissions & polution) & working together in Europe has improved the environmental situation untold amounts. That & other frameworks established are not being forgotten, erased or disassembled with this decision, rather the other way around. A now angry assembly in the EU chambers (understandably) avows to punish the decision, not only out of anger but to pull & threaten others into falling into line.

As an often naughty schoolboy, it all seems a little too familiar to me and it Is too early to tell how any of this will shake-down.
I voted to leave because i felt we had to do so while there is experience in our government, ambassadors, industry and trade for Britain to stand on it's own two feet. That appears to be hopeful right now (claims from Westminster is they don't have enough experience to negotiate fresh treaties) and the decision alone has divided families, generations and countries of our Union. A deliberate & divisive campaign has left the people confused, angry & no doubt out of pocket, tough times ahead. We are a country used to the rule of divide & conquer in many ways and we should find ways to unite, not pull ourselves apart.
We had to jump now. We had to make a choice. It will be hard & expensive.
With responsibility comes great power if the reverse is true,
and we will show how it can be done.

In an ideal world, I'd have a meritocracy, but this is far from democracies ideal.

posting before i re-read & decide to trash it

[haliose]

Originally Posted by bryanbraddock

Blackmail? what blackmail?
Two years ago the Scots voted to remain a member of a union that was part of a bigger union. That has now changed,and the majority of Scotland are upset by this. Why not let the Scots have another referendum based on this new deal? If they continue to want to be part of the new UK they will vote accordingly. If not let them leave.

looking at news over the few days i think id vote to stay in which i reckon a new vote would be needed.but if scotland wants to leave id be sorry .look st it this way ,a rainbow has 7 colours but if u take 5 away thats how many colours the uk has

[Blue126]

Originally Posted by bryanbraddock

Scotland voted 2 years ago to be part of a union that was in the EU.
That deal has now changed,time to ask the question again.

Things will always change and are you going to vote everytime you don't like something?

Be carefull what you wish for!

[bryanbraddock]

Originally Posted by Blue126

Things will always change and are you going to vote everytime you don't like something?

No. That would be silly.
Only when a huge change occurs such as something that risks the entire economic future of a country.

Originally Posted by Blue126

Be carefull what you wish for!

Look I hated England. So I left. I despise people like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage. I hate little Englanders, I hate the Royal family, the Tories and the class of people that have ruled Britain since the middle ages. Luckily I was independent and financially able to break free.
Not everybody can do that.
I feel incredibly sorry for the 48% of British people who are stuck in a scary situation they don't want to be in. I feel especially sorry for the Scots,a proud nation who have been under the thumb of English tyranny for hundreds of years.Forced to bend to the whim of what ever England wants.
I want them to finally break free, and I want the UK to fall.
If England wants their independence so much let them be truly independent and stand alone.