Global Warming

[MaxJoker]

What amuses me most about this debate (Putting aside the middle age experience which if studied bears no resemblance to the problem we`re facing , a bit like comparing the black death to 1940s food rationing) is the people who believe it all some great conspiracy by their respective governments , created just to put up taxes or pass certain laws which may be detrimental to their lives.When the reality is governments do that constantly and right in your face, for fucks sake mine just pissed away a trillion tax payer pounds in a month and nobody here does a thing except give a weak willed shrug. Plus they`ll give the very same ineffectual shoulder action in another few weeks when the government (Or regime as i prefer to call them) do it again and throw yet more cash at those spendthrift begging bowl bankers !.

Global warming is no conspiracy , at least not in the way people think . Rather it's a conspiracy by government agencies to keep the true and dangerous condition of this worlds climate under wraps. You know a great deal of misinformation is being put out there along with a shit load of scare stories, only there`s no need to swallow any other facts than an overuse of fossil fuels and mass deforestation are buggering up our environment.

Didn`t have to be that way and sensible steps could have been taken , especially since the early seventies when real knowledge of the possible cause and effects became more recognized.

Who benefited and continues to benefit from this unsustainable consumer driven ideal of take all you can while you can ?, why only our good old friends the national conglomerations of course. Those nice people who tell your governments what major policy shifts to make, sure they let them tinker around the edges of self running democracy but don`t ever fool yourself into believing every big life effecting war box ticking decision isn`t made by boardrooms full of faceless number crunchers ok.

Many may still joke about this subject but i won`t , and hey i usually joke about everything right .

Only thing is we don`t actually need to pollute the water we drink , the soil we gather food from or the air we breath to have decent and comfortable lives.

So why do so ,and why act in a "Sod the future" manner ?. Surely the lives of our children , strangers and those yet unborn are as important as our own ?.
If you don`t agree then you just haven`t met enough people .

We don`t need to exist in the moment and say to hell with generations to come, that`s what has put us in this position.This oh so happy disintegration of personal liberty, personal safety , harmony , justice etc. I can only speak for myself , but when i switch on my TV or gaze out of the window i see a liberal fascistic parasitic camara spying product placement suit wearing lying tax collecting police state of purest bullshit dragging us into home made hell .


These soon to be critical environmental aliments will effect us all within the next five years, but if we`re lucky and get to grips with the problem now the worst can be avoided .

Yet to do so means rejecting the false corporate idol , weening ourselves off fossil fuels and bringing a halt to the destruction of the earths lungs = Trees

Or maybe most won`t take notice here until the multitude lighting storms disrupt their signal and block their porn ?

Apologies if this comes across as a rant , but then i know for a certainty that my own regime has discussed the truths at the highest level and have decided it`s easier to piss around with phony recycling , wind turbines and energy saving light bulbs than grow a spine and deal with their money masters who caused this lousy mess we`re about to try and live through !.

[kiwi]

- you do realize that all we are - is a Virus with shoes.

What ever happens to us is of no relevance - nature will continue as she always has & always will - with or without us.



a rather sad Kiwi

[johnmcwhatsit]

Originally Posted by johnmcwhatsit

Great tits are adapting to the warming in Britain. Apparently the number of great tits in Britain are increasing with the warming.
[/URL]


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7390109.stm

Great tits cope well with warming
By Richard Black
Environment correspondent, BBC News website

[Silver Rocket]

Even if you don't agree with man made climate change then the foreign policy benefits of an economy which doesn't depend on millions of barrels of oil from the middle east and other troubled areas round the world like Nigeria mean that finding alternative energy sources makes sense.

[Leprechaun]

It should be part of our prime principles to respect Mother Nature and avoid overpopulation and exploitation of the planet we live on. Environment protection and the use of alternative energy should be obligatory. Up to now we have only one home in universe.

But sooner or later the climate will change at any rate. Nature is subject to constant change - but will we acclimatize ourselves too? Maybe one day we will become extinct because of inadaptation and Gaia will sweep us away from her face! In earth's history things already gone badly for some big mouths...

[harterdonner]

Alternative energy sources? I live in a state that stopped the construction of Nuclear reactors, and payed back the companies for what they lost. Blasted a bunch of dams up, in places that never had fish that go to the sea. Breeds fish for the French, but does not allow our fishermen to catch them.

Yes local conditions can be changed by man. Over 100 years ago London had killer fogs. As a child one of the Great Lakes was dead. So some amount of logic needs to be used.

BUT if your on the internet, DONT talk about population control, or the poor use of power, because if that it what you feel is the truth, then your taking up space you yourself feel should be left for generations to come, and even if you can not bring yourself to do the right thing, should be in a mud hut, with no power, digging you food out of the ground.

You know Marco Polo said China was Over Populated. That was Seven Hundred years ago, 700. That was about , oh a Billion people ago. So what is it now? Super Duper, Improved, re-engineered, horrendous Over populated?


Left

right

middle

In most cases were you have people at extremes the middle is closer to reality. Only one problem. In this case the only ones asking for truth are the ones not asking for money to prove it. In short Ya give me money and I will make a case for anything. That is why a Lawyer got a Nobel peace prize for Environment.

[MaxJoker]

No not nature , but we are changing that layer which used to properly protect us from either treading water or turning crispy.

Also we`re changing our once natural mental and physical health , by a combination of unnecessary chemicals and invented lifestyle stresses.

Who knows maybe i gave them too much credit by using the term Conspiracy (Especially when i think the phrase was merely invented to keep people happy) when associating government inaction ? , as you need brains and forward planning for such a thing .
All i have is what i`ve been shown ,by people much closer to the original source.Did briefly debate posting the info and names associated but then thought fuck it why bother ?, although if i drink enough one fine early morning i just might .

Plus the last time i did something similar on here it was about the Clintons and their #### soaked rise to the presidency.All that i wrote was documented merely difficult to collect yet that didn`t seem to matter to anyone, gee's in fact everyone just continued to act like a bunch of wankers in response . Might be due to the fact i`m known for joking around on here though

Still i`m getting off topic so back to global cooking info, sorry i mean warming .In the main it made tedious reading as Gov speak is a language unto itself (Some would say deliberately so) , the gist is they expect "Difficulties" and have put in place specific emergency measures. Only they appreciate that if the most serious side effects occur those will be as useful as putting a plaster over a cancerous tumor , probably why there have been quite a few resignations and sideways promotions of those awarded with the underfunded thankless organizational task. Before anyone asks , media groups know these events the documentation, but barring a few decent exceptions on the whole most follow the official line and keep focusing on the most important news items such as celebrity big brother .

Who knows maybe this`ll end up being the best thing that ever happened for the earth ? , because the planet will eventually heal itself . Just there may not be that many of us left to see it, then again the way our democratic civilization is going we might end up beating the event to the punch and blow ourself up .

Look we`re all fully entitled to our varying opinions (But to be fair this isn`t the place for serious debate) , be it me .Who believes income and the other myriad of taxes originally brought in to fund the Napoleonic wars were kept in place (Increased ever since) after them to keep us firmly in place Or others (Like bellsmyre49 says) who think an End of days is coming.Me i`m not so dramatic, just think it makes more sense that if your foot is burning you put it out before it creeps up and roasts your nuts .

Hey on the plus side at least it won`t be boring , i mean Verne could win


Anyway i`m off to start my BBQ , now where did i leave those tyres ?

[Leprechaun]

Originally Posted by harterdonner

You know Marco Polo said China was Over Populated. That was Seven Hundred years ago, 700. That was about , oh a Billion people ago. So what is it now? Super Duper, Improved, re-engineered, horrendous Over populated?

The key to understanding overpopulation is not population density but the numbers of people in an area relative to its resources and the capacity of the environment to sustain human activities; that is, to the area's carrying capacity. When is an area overpopulated? When its population can't be maintained without rapidly depleting nonrenewable resources (or converting renewable resources into nonrenewable ones) and without degrading the capacity of the environment to support the population. In short, if the long-term carrying capacity of an area is clearly being degraded by its current human occupants, that area is overpopulated. *35

By this standard, the entire planet and virtually every nation is already vastly overpopulated. Africa is overpopulated now because, among other indications, its soils and forests are rapidly being depleted—and that implies that its carrying capacity for human beings will be lower in the future than it is now. The United States is overpopulated because it is depleting its soil and water resources and contributing mightily to the destruction of global environmental systems. Europe, Japan, the Soviet Union, and other rich nations are overpopulated because of their massive contributions to the carbon dioxide buildup in the atmosphere, among many other reasons.

Almost all the rich nations are overpopulated because they are rapidly drawing down stocks of resources around the world. They don't live solely on the land in their own nations. Like the profligate son of our earlier analogy, they are spending their capital with no thought for the future.

Source: http://www.dieoff.org/page27.htm

There is also the fact that we have a superannuation of the population in industrial countries* - mainly because of advanced medical care and hygienics. But the older a person gets the higher its risk to develop cancer, get osteoporosis and other diseases of aging. It is questionable whether we are really cut out for getting disproportionately elderly. However, the life expectancy in industrial nations continues to rise so overpopulation is inevitable without birth control ... or adjustment by nature itself (notes: infertility, autoimmune disorders, epidemics...)

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

[harterdonner]

Originally Posted by Leprechaun

It is questionable whether we are really cut out for getting disproportionately elderly. However, the life expectancy in industrial nations continues to rise so overpopulation is inevitable without birth control ... or adjustment by nature itself (notes: infertility, autoimmune disorders, epidemics...)

OK so the guy from Germany would like to wipe out the old, and those taking up to much space because it will help Earth.

I seem to recall reading about this type of thinking from the 30s, and 40s.


As for Globel warming. Well the big Lizard guys had it much warmer. It was warmer in 50 bc, and much colder in 1630s. As for the upper part of our air bubble, well we dont know much about what was up there before the late 1980s no matter what anyone says. We have far more info on earrth weather at man level, and still we can not control, or tell what the weather is doing.

[Leprechaun]

Originally Posted by harterdonner

OK so the guy from Germany would like to wipe out the old, and those taking up to much space because it will help Earth.
I seem to recall reading about this type of thinking from the 30s, and 40s.

That's exactly the answer I had expected ...
Our discussion would get a little absurd now ... so it's time to end it.