The Falklands War

[otokonomidori]

I [ with help from some others] made the Mk 8 torpedoes with which the "General Belgrano" was sunk - blew it's bows right off they did!! "

That's what you call job satisfaction.

[rupertramjet]

The controversial sinking of the General Belgrano:

A squaddies view: Thanks matelots!

[duanedoberman]

How about a less jingoistic view?

The seed for the Falklands war was the scrapping of the British Antarctic survey vessel by the Thatcher government, it might have saved a few million, but gave the Argentinan government the implicit impression that the British had lost intrest in the Falkland Island company (the Falklands was not a country but a company listed on the stock exchange, the islanders were in effect bonded labourers for the company dependent on the company for housing, food etc).

As for the sinking of the Belgrano, even the commander of the Argentinian navy regards its sinking as a legitimate act of war. The controversy is over why the government lied about who was responsible for taking the decision to sink the former American cruiser (USS Phoenix) which was at Pearl Harbour during the Japanese attack. The government said at the time it was a decision taken by the captain of the Conqueror for operational reasons.

However in the after glow of the victory, someone forgot to brief the captain, and on its return to base he was asked what it was like to be responsible for starting a war, to which he replied that he didn't take the decision but was ordered to sink the Belgrano by London. Remember that in the long history of the Royal Navy the Conqueror's log is the only ships log that has ever been lost.

I am not crticising the Squaddies sailors or airmen, they showed incredable courage and overcame massive odds to win a stunning victory, but to laud Thatcher for the victory as well sticks in the craw. Her penny pinching was directly responsible for the conflict, and her government was caught out lying. The war was won in spite of Thatcher not because of her.

Before the Falklands war her government was the most unpopular in British history, yet she went on to win the next election. I believe her motives are obvious, and to do this over the bodies of 100's of British servicemen is something that I find pretty repugnant.

[Mal Hombre]

Originally Posted by duanedoberman

How about a less jingoistic view?

The seed for the Falklands war was the scrapping of the British Antarctic survey vessel by the Thatcher government, it might have saved a few million, but gave the Argentinan government the implicit impression that the British had lost intrest in the Falkland Island company (the Falklands was not a country but a company listed on the stock exchange, the islanders were in effect bonded labourers for the company dependent on the company for housing, food etc).

They had also started talking about the wishes of the Islanders no longer being paramount ,This gave the Argentine Government every reason to believe that Their invasion would be a formality...

[rupertramjet]

I as one of the thousands of British Service Personnel sitting in the middle of The South Atlantic, on a big War Canoe, with nothing but cold sea, and a long swim, can only say, that we really did not care who gave the order. The comment about the Captain of The Conqueror, being asked 'how it felt to have started a war,' I do not remember. The Belgrano was sunk, long after the Invasion of the Falklands, which happened in a way similar to your above mentioned Pearl Harbour, without warning and in force. I appologise to all who feel this an inappropriate comparison. The exclussion zone had been set up quite awhile previously and we were well on our way, in fact we had already been attacked by Argentine Aircraft.

I see your argument about the John Nott defence review, and the withdraw of HMS Endurance, it is actually shared by Captain Nicholas Barker, her Captain. BUT the war was caused by the Invasion of the Islands by the Argentine Government, not by Margaret Thatcher. There are a dozen other excuses too, but the truth is negotiation not invasion.

The reason for the invasion is one of the longest standing reasons for any war. To divert attention. In the case of Argentina, from the chronic economic situation and the obscene human rights violations, they hoped that an upswell in Patriotic felling would divert attention from that. My Regiment lost a lot of people, three of my closest friends, did not return and I like most of us do not blame the Thatcher Government.

[ordenstaat]

Have just read Harry Benson's book 'Scram', about the helicopter element of the 1982 war. I recall clearly as a teenager being glued to the TV set (it was the first time I ever showed any interest in watching the news). The book really does drive home the massive effort involved in taking back the islands in the face of huge setbacks. I really like Benson's word on the Harrier - "why did we ever get rid of them".

[haroldeye]

I have seen a theory that the Falklands war and Britains fighting spirit changed much more than affairs in S America. Apparently the younger and more intelligent members of the Politburo in Moscow took note that there was a bit of backbone in the decadent West.

The conflict was not without honour. Rod Bell a Royal Marine Captain who was used as Spanish interpreter was present at the surrender. Afterwards he left the building and realised that he had nowhere to stay. He walked down to the waterside where there was an Argie launch moored. As a Marine he knew the small warship would have showers, food and a comfy bed so he volunteered himself to take the surrender of the vessel personally. The Argentinian officers were distraught at being informed of the surrender but handed their swords over to Rod. He handed them back but then thought that there were Paras going to be around shortly. No offence to any member of the Parachute Regiment who might be on this site but Rod Bell knew (as all Royal Marines do) that Para's are by nature collectors of all sorts of militaria, or as we say here in the North, thieving sods. Rod told the Argy officers that he would take their swords and gave them his contact details in the UK. After the fuss had died down they could come to London and collect their swords without fear of being mugged by Aldershots finest. By the 20th anniversary in 2002 two of the officers had indeed collected their property and the third had written giving Capt Bell permission to keep his sword.

Incidentally there was a story doing the rounds that the prisoners from Goose Green who were being guarded by Paras were less than impressed when they heard the Para were moving on and the Gurkhas were to guard them. The Paras told the POW that the Gurkhas were nice chaps but to be wary of those who smiled as they were the ones who practised cannabilism. As the Gurkhas were taking over they asked the Paras if the POW were difficult. The Para assured the Gurkhas that all one had to do was smile and the prisoners would behave impeccably.

[windymiller]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

This is the number one reason why Labour lost the next three general elections. Even millions of staunch bedrock Labour families who had supported Labour down the generations since Kier Hardy set it up were firmly alienated by a party which would not fight when British territory was invaded.

Contrast this with the modern Labour party who will happily send British soldiers to fight and die in pointless wars just so their leaders can massage their own egos and pretend to be major world players.

[billybunter]

The British forces won by the skin of their teeth. They had 3 hours worth of ammo. If it happened again which I hope never happens Britain is buggered.

[Ennath]

Originally Posted by billybunter

The British forces won by the skin of their teeth. They had 3 hours worth of ammo. If it happened again which I hope never happens Britain is buggered.

A view from the other side of the Atlantic. It does seem that British forces often have to fight with shortages and equipment that is sometimes not, shall we say, cutting edge. It's fortunate that the men are there to make up the shortcomings. (I remember in the 1980's hearing the remark that the BAOR was the best trained and worst equipped army in Europe.)