Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[palo5]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Once we leave, there won't be any quotas.

Fine. Then you'll eat herring & chips. That's what's in your waters, so that's what you'll eat if you don't want to trade

Not for the first time, Spain is alienating the Gibraltarians. They do not react well to being bullied. Neither do the rest of the British.

Hey, downsize a little. Gibraltar wants to be in the EU for obvious reasons. And most of the British don't even know where it is. Face reality and stop imagining you're being "bullied" -- 98% of Gibraltar in favor of the EU is overwhelming will of the people, so accept it

[BondJmsBond]

Originally Posted by palo5

Gibraltar wants to be in the EU for obvious reasons. And most of the British don't even know where it is. Face reality and stop imagining you're being "bullied" -- 98% of Gibraltar in favor of the EU is overwhelming will of the people, so accept it

This sounds disturbingly like the propaganda put out right before Crimea suddenly became part of Russia. Brits, you better go check Gibraltar for little green men.

[scoundrel]

Even in the present situation, I am sure that the rest of the EU will react badly (from Spain's point of view) if Spain invades Gibraltar. Just for the record, there are some British military forces there who will fight if they are attacked, as happened in 2 April 1982 in the case of the Falkland Islands. I doubt very much that Britain will merely walk away afterwards - it would be a war, involving as a minimum violent retaliation against Spanish assets such as shipping.

Spain is not likely to do anything so criminally stupid. She may however revert to the Franco years and cut Gibraltar off. That would harm Spain more than Gibraltar but hey, there is a lot of pique going around and the EU strategy as a whole seems indifferent to the economic harm a loss of trade with Britain could do to citizens of the EU.

Hopefully, this is just nonsense and Spain is merely making a point. We shall see.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by palo5

Fine. Then you'll eat herring & chips. That's what's in your waters, so that's what you'll eat if you don't want to trade

You don't eat smoked herring (kippers) with chips. I like smoked herring for breakfast occasionally - just by itself with lemon juice. I'm told it goes well with rye bread but I haven't tried that.

Once we leave, we can get rid of those Dutch vacuum trawlers.
http://britishseafishing.co.uk/cornelis-vrolijk/

We will need to look at fisheries from a completely clean page and manage them sustainably. If this were up to me I would certainly prohibit both direct and indirect ownership of British fishing vessels by non British citizens or corporations. Any ship convicted in a British court of illegal fishing (out of season, violating quota limits or poaching) would lose its licence to fish. No fines, no imprisonment, simply forbidden ever to go to sea again - same for the captain and crew, who would have to find different employment not involving fishing. The penalty for any banned fisherman caught fishing in another boat would be at least five years in prison, actual time served.

Any foreign ship fishing in British waters without a license to do so would simply be scrapped without compensation and her crew to pay their own fares to go home.

[Mal Hombre]

The thing about British fishing boats is that they sell most of their catch in the EU,No good having a monopoly of Our fisheries if there's nowhere to sell the fish.

[Wendigo]

We will still end up trading with the EU no matter what happens, I suspect a massive fudge is due but if the upshot is we will be leaving the EU and it isn't all I hoped for then I will live with that.
The idea of remaining in an organisation that so many of us dislike is anathema to me.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

The thing about British fishing boats is that they sell,most of their catch in the EU,No good having a monopoly of Our fisheries if there's nowhere to sell the fish.

There is a whole world in which to sell fish. Large bulk freezer ships can carry hundreds of thousands of metric tons and with quite a small crew, so transport costs are extremely low by historic standards. Sadly, we are at variance with the Russian Federation but they have 190 million people and they eat fish too. There is also North America, China and the Far East (especially shellfish), Australia, New Zealand and the Middle East.

Unless the EU positively bans British fish, trade will still go on. Even if they do ban British fish, experience shows us that some will be sold there regardless.

You have to reflect that British waters will extend for 200 miles except in the Channel, the North Sea approach to the Channel and the Irish Sea. EU registered ships caught over 600,000 metric tons of fish in our waters in 2016 alone. Sure the EU can buy elsewhere but meanwhile that 600, 000 metric ton catch will belong to Britain again, and it is far more than we caught in 2016. We wouldn't have to catch and sell anything like an extra 600,000 metric tons of fish every year after Brexit to be better off than we are under the Common Fisheries Policy, and the elephant in the room here is that the seas were already being grossly overfished before Britain joined the EU. This is an opportunity to both expand the British fishing industry and greatly improve conservation and sustainability. Shutting down those Dutch vacuum trawlers will be a really good first step.

Incidentally, pair trawling for sea bass kills thousands of dolphins and porpoises every year. It is illegal in Britain and British ships cannot do it anywhere. It is banned inside the British 12 mile limit. But despite British membership of the EU, the EU allows this practice and it is routine to see non-British EU ships pair trawling for sea bass 12.5 miles out from our coast. That too can be stopped when we leave the EU.

Also incidentally, the opportunities for marine conservation and tourism in a sea environment full of wildlife are considerable. We should be thinking holistically.

[Wendigo]

Brexit: Donald Tusk tells European Union to approve deal
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46330380


The devil is in the detail, all 585 pages of small print which will no doubt harbour some very contentious points and Parliament will be scrutinising every aspect of that document, there is certainly lots about it I dislike but it's in the hands of Westminster now.

What I do not want is Remain hijacking it and trying to reverse the decision of the country.

I agree with scounds about Britain outside the EU, we need to invest more in people drop tuition fees drastically for university courses that would enrich our country especially medicine, science and technology. We need to support our farmers more, rely less on invisible exports and concentrate on rebuilding our infrastructure.

Will any political party be willing to rise to the challenge or will they all just keep slinging shit like gorillas with bad attitude.....

[palo5]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Unless the EU positively bans British fish, trade will still go on. Even if they do ban British fish, experience shows us that some will be sold there regardless

They won't ban British fish. Most of what you eat is caught in EU waters, and a lot of what they eat is caught in British waters. Plenty of room for a deal there

Btw, you exaggerate Russia's population. USSR had more than 200 million population, but these days Russia has ca. 150 million, or maybe a few less

I don't know if there's demand for British fish in Russia. Probably there is if the deal is right. But Russia already has a big fishing industry, and produces about 3.3m tonnes per year. We have big territorial waters, countless lakes and more than two million rivers (yes, two million) so we shouldn't run short of fish, unless they mismanage it

Maybe British delicacy fish could be popular?

[palo5]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

What I do not want is Remain hijacking it and trying to reverse the decision of the country

They can only reverse it if there is a second referendum. And if they win, it's "the will of the people" and you'll have to accept it. Who knows if there will be one?

But that deal does look bad for UK. You will be losing sovereignty if it goes through, not re-gaining it. In a way, I can sympathize. It's hard to imagine anyone wanting a deal like that. It only has one merit: no-deal is worse