Quest for the Presidency (2020 Edition)

[AtemiWaza]

Originally Posted by charliels531

So clearly you don't see danger from climate change.

If saving the planet from climate change is the goal, wouldn't Al Gore be the best possible candidate?

I always liked Gore. He strikes me as such a sincere guy.

Who can listen to him talk about the impending doom of the earth from man-caused global warming and not be genuinely moved?

[HugoHackenbush]

Originally Posted by LadyLuck

The police are in a "law of averages" business. They pull over vehicles most likely to net an arrest. I (and my vehicle) don't fit that profile.

I don't think so. I got pulled over on a road that is a notorious speed trap, while doing exactly the speed limit. Why? I didn't stop for a little old lady standing at the edge of a cross-walk. On Christmas Eve.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by AtemiWaza

The "south" didn't start the civil war. Union and Confederate politicians did. Blaming the civilian populations of the southern states for the civil war demonstrates a staggering level of ignorance and misunderstanding about the origins and prosecution of the war.

No civilized person believes a civilian population should be purposely targeted and victimized for the misdeeds of its political and/or military establishment. The very idea is revolting.

General Sherman's "March to the Sea" was one of the darkest chapters in American military history, something sinister and diabolic. If a modern American general attempted to commit anything even remotely similar, he would be court marshaled and jailed, if not hanged.

Sherman's Union soldiers looted, pillaged and plundered farms, homes, business, schools, and even churches. What they didn't steal, they burned. They indiscriminately killed military aged men, and systematically raped women and young girls. Sherman's "scorched earth" campaign was eerily similar to the Nazi's campaigns in the early part of WWII. The civilians Sherman left behind had nothing. No food. No shelter. No transportation. They were left to starve, die of exposure, or die attempting to make their way to find help.

Using your tortured logic, the United States military should have targeted its military might against the civilian populations of Afghanistan and Iraq. In reality, the United States military did (and does) exactly the opposite. US military planners exhaustively plan strikes to minimize the effects on civilians.

Actually, I have read contemporary accounts written by people who were on the receiving end of Sherman's campaign and frankly the bit I have highlighted is not supported by any of them. For example, Emma Florence Laconte lived in Colombia, South Carolina and in her private diary she described the sack of the town by Sherman's men in a lot of detail. She loathed Sherman and the Union Army and she would not have held back the information if she had either seen of heard of anyone being raped or murdered. Sherman's men looted the town systematically and burned down most of the houses - but in every case they ordered the people to leave the house first. Arson yes. Robbery at gunpoint, yes. Murder - no. Rape - no.

Colombia was punished worst of all the towns and cities Sherman passed through, worse than Charleston even, because Colombia hosted the convention in which the CSA states formed the Confederacy. It was the scene of the crime. Also, unlike in Savannah or Georgia generally, Sherman's men got drunk and this intensified their aggression and mean spirit. But for example, Miss Laconte noted how Sherman had set a guard on the town hospital and the guard prevented looting and arson here,, though some of the rampaging soldiers would have done it and tried to do it. After a sleepless and very anxious night, the head doctor's wife implored a passing officer to restore discipline, and he did, although making his contempt for the CSA civilians absolutely clear.

An officer riding by ordered the men to stop. So broken down and humbled by the terrible experience of the night was she that she cried - out - "O, sir, please make them stop!" You don't know what I suffered this night." - "I don't give a damn for your suffering" he replied, "but my men have no right to pillage against orders." ~ Emma Florence LaConte 18 February 1864.

It's always better to start with factual evidence, don't you think? Especially if you are discussing compensation in 2019 for wrongs committed in 1865.

[Mal Hombre]

Sherman's troops in Georgia encountered emaciated escapees from the Confederate POW Camp at Andersonville, That they did not take reprisals on Confederate civilians is a testament to their humanity.

[scoundrel]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1U809O

It seems that Mr Trump's campaign promise to bring the runaway inflation in the price of prescription drugs in the United States has not been achieved and looks unlikely to be achieved. The proposed reform would have required health insurers to credit the value of rebates from drug manufacturers back to the patients instead of charging them full retail price for their drugs and pocketing the rebates as a windfall profit. It is not yet clear why Mr Trump has decided to withdraw this proposal. He hasn't had many progressive ideas so the loss of this one is a pity.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by charliels531

That is a good definition of white privilege. It isn't about good stuff happening nearly so much as it is about bad stuff not happening.

I was quite fortunate that I avoided being stopped during the years when I routinely drove drunk and stoned. Of course, I did go out of my way to observe the speed limit and traffic laws knowing that I would certainly be arrested and convicted of DUI and/or drug possession if stopped. By the time I began routinely to have blackouts, my employment status and wages declined to the point that I was unable to retrieve my car when it was towed for being illegally parked. This would have been a time of great danger as I could have easily said or done something to get killed.

After sobering up, I got several tickets for speeding, but far less than could have been issued as I was a routine offender like many California drivers. However, my latest vehicle was less responsive than my earlier cars and I noticed that my reactions had noticeably slowed about 15 years ago. That ended my scofflaw driving career.

If one obeys the traffic laws, there is little chance of being stopped because the cops have so many offenders to choose from.

[AtemiWaza]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Actually, I have read contemporary accounts written by people who were on the receiving end of Sherman's campaign and frankly the bit I have highlighted is not supported by any of them. For example, Emma Florence Laconte lived in Colombia, South Carolina and in her private diary she described the sack of the town by Sherman's men in a lot of detail. She loathed Sherman and the Union Army and she would not have held back the information if she had either seen of heard of anyone being raped or murdered. Sherman's men looted the town systematically and burned down most of the houses - but in every case they ordered the people to leave the house first. Arson yes. Robbery at gunpoint, yes. Murder - no. Rape - no.

Colombia was punished worst of all the towns and cities Sherman passed through, worse than Charleston even, because Colombia hosted the convention in which the CSA states formed the Confederacy. It was the scene of the crime. Also, unlike in Savannah or Georgia generally, Sherman's men got drunk and this intensified their aggression and mean spirit. But for example, Miss Laconte noted how Sherman had set a guard on the town hospital and the guard prevented looting and arson here,, though some of the rampaging soldiers would have done it and tried to do it. After a sleepless and very anxious night, the head doctor's wife implored a passing officer to restore discipline, and he did, although making his contempt for the CSA civilians absolutely clear.

It's always better to start with factual evidence, don't you think? Especially if you are discussing compensation in 2019 for wrongs committed in 1865.

General Sherman's March to the Sea has been one of the most thoroughly studied aspects of the Union's prosecution of the war.

That General Sherman, by modern standards, committed war crimes is indisputable. Only a fool would attempt to argue otherwise. Contemporary letters written by the Union's own officers document war crimes including men captured and being summarily shot or having their throats cut. Sherman himself received these written documentations and was entirely aware of their happenings.

More importantly, Sherman's March to the Sea was not a military operation against other armed soldiers. Far from it. The very purpose of Sherman's March to the Sea was to literally terrorize the civilian populations. The actions he took were deliberately calculated to inflict maximum physical and psychological damage on the innocent non-combatant populations he targeted. Sherman's campaign was one of domestic terrorism.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by AtemiWaza

General Sherman's March to the Sea has been one of the most thoroughly studied aspects of the Union's prosecution of the war.

That General Sherman, by modern standards, committed war crimes is indisputable. Only a fool would attempt to argue otherwise. Contemporary letters written by the Union's own officers document war crimes including men captured and being summarily shot or having their throats cut. Sherman himself received these written documentations and was entirely aware of their happenings.

More importantly, Sherman's March to the Sea was not a military operation against other armed soldiers. Far from it. The very purpose of Sherman's March to the Sea was to literally terrorize the civilian populations. The actions he took were deliberately calculated to inflict maximum physical and psychological damage on the innocent non-combatant populations he targeted. Sherman's campaign was one of domestic terrorism.

A. Sherman issued orders prohibiting violence against civilians and punished soldiers caught disobeying those orders.

B. His army was in contact with Confederate forces who were conducting a fighting retreat the entire time.

C. Both Sherman's expedition and Sheridan's similar operation in the Shenandoah were aimed at denying food and military supplies to Confederate armies in the field. It should also be remembered that these operations followed Robert E. Lee's raid into Maryland and Pennsylvania in 1863, Morgan's raid into Indiana and Ohio, and the continuing action's of irregular Confederate guerrilla units.

Civil wars are ugly and messy with both sides guilty of excesses.

Charleston was burned without Sherman's orders. It is generally believed that the Union soldiers were reacting to the long agitation for secession originating in South Carolina, the secessionist convention held there, and the attack on Fort Sumter that initiated the shooting war.

The North was fighting to preserve the United States as a nation. The South was fighting to expand chattel slavery into new areas.

All of the "Lost Cause" romantic fictions cannot conceal the fact that the leaders of the Confederate States purpose was to continue and expand the brutal enslavement and degradation of human beings based on their skin color at a time when the rest of European civilization had abolished the practice.

[Mal Hombre]

General Lee's troops in Pennsylvania abducted free Black people and sent them south to be sold into slavery.

[SanteeFats]

I may have missed why the Civil War posts started but I would like to know what it has to do with the 2020 elections?

There is a Civil War thread by the way.