Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[Enrico32]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

It was King George's speech to parliament in 1775 which moved them to expand their action against the colonies for their "intransigence"...

Not exactly neutral on the subject.

Why the French didn't stay in Atlantic colonies as conquerors after their splendid victories 1779-81?

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Enrico32

???
What do you mean by "iron hand"?
Name three greatest life-changing events since the Antiquity. First fire? First bow? First army? First penicillin? First car? How many of their creators were monarchs?

Monarchs are capable sometimes of artistic and scientific creativity, but that is not what monarchs are for.

[Enrico32]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

My high school history teacher was of German descent. While we were studying World War II he noted that the Germans, British and U.S. were all working to develop nuclear weapons during the war. He noted, "It was a good thing the European war ended when it did and that the Americans developed the bomb first. Otherwise, while they were all good little German girls and boys, they might have done something rash."

Were there peace proposals to end the war before 1945?

[Enrico32]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Monarchs are capable sometimes of artistic and scientific creativity, but that is not what monarchs are for.

To rule means to change something, isn't it?

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by Enrico32

Why the French didn't stay in Atlantic colonies as conquerors after their splendid victories 1779-81?

They were primarily interested in weakening England, not taking North America for themselves.

Remember, they had already lost most of their influence around here in previous struggles with the English. They had certainly calculated that doing what the English tried to do was ultimately a losing proposition. In the end they sold off what they had left here to us in the Louisiana Purchase in 1803, essentially washing their hands of meddling on the North American mainland.

[haroldeye]

Bonaparte sold Louisiana to finance his war in Europe. He didn't give a monkey's about the Americas.

[scoundrel]

Although General Lafayette is a bit of a legend in America's history (for example three ships in the USN have carried his name) Franco-American relations have always been a bit up and down. America should accept some of the blame. The first falling out started because the new republic used the French Revolution as a flimsy excuse to welch on its debts to the French government. After various maritime incidents in which official French naval ships and French privateers seized American merchant ships as retaliation for the dishonouring of America's borrowings, there followed an undeclared but very real war between America and France (and France's ally, Spain); an event which also marked the birth of the US Navy as a fighting force.

Later, during the American Civil War, France and Britain took advantage of America's internal problems to land armies in Mexico. Same old same old - the Mexicans had borrowed tons of money from Britain and France, spunked the lot and declared that they wouldn't repay one single peso and Britain and France couldn't do anything about it. It turned out that they could.

In December 1941, the FDR administration in general and Secretary of State Cordell Hull in particular were intensely displeased because Charles de Gaulle's Free French forces seized control of the tiny French island colonies of Miquelon and St Pierre, just off Newfoundland. Mr Hull had promised the Vichy France government that this was not going to be permitted and had curtly told General de Gaulle to stay away from the USA's sphere of influence; only to find that de Gaulle was dismissive of their authority in what after all was a French affair, and that Churchill had instructed the Royal Navy to protect the Miquelon island from any attempt to land American troops.

In January 1943, the Americans tried to revenge themselves by demoting Charles de Gaulle and replacing him with a subservient puppet leader called Henri Giraud. This failed, because de Gaulle had far too much authority inside the Free French movement to be so easily removed. The upshot was that de Gaulle governed France off and on for the next 25 years after WW2 and made non-cooperation with the USA into an art form.

Then we had the cheese eating surrender-monkeys thing.

[Enrico32]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

They were primarily interested in weakening England, not taking North America for themselves.

Remember, they had already lost most of their influence around here in previous struggles with the English. They had certainly calculated that doing what the English tried to do was ultimately a losing proposition. In the end they sold off what they had left here to us in the Louisiana Purchase in 1803, essentially washing their hands of meddling on the North American mainland.

Interesting, esp. given that Bonaparte actually tried to reclaim Haiti, and failed again only because of the English. And there were provisions that the French won't be suppressed in Louisiana.
I always wonder about this colonial thing in general.
How valuable the colonies actually were?
Did the crowns of UK, France, and esp. Spain actually become poorer when losing colonies? I read the seceding rebels were obliged to repay large loans to kings, but how this was enforced?

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by Enrico32

Interesting, esp. given that Bonaparte actually tried to reclaim Haiti, and failed again only because of the English. And there were provisions that the French won't be suppressed in Louisiana.
I always wonder about this colonial thing in general.
How valuable the colonies actually were?
Did the crowns of UK, France, and esp. Spain actually become poorer when losing colonies? I read the seceding rebels were obliged to repay large loans to kings, but how this was enforced?

Some colonies were quite valuable. Spain extracted huge amounts of silver from the fallen Aztec Empire, then mostly pissed it away fighting wars in Europe. They lost their silver mines when Mexico became independent. Spain is much poorer today than it might otherwise be because of bad decisions made by its kings of old.

Valuable things like cotton and tobacco flowed to England from the States. In practice, even after we achieved independence, these goods were still flowing to England, it was just that the king could no longer impose unjust taxes on the former colonies for the privilege of doing business with the British Empire.

So yes, colonies were quite valuable. England's global network of colonies kept her in the game as a trading superpower up into the 20th century. That has all gone away now, of course.

In the old days, the more conquered heathen peoples you had toiling in mines and fields in faraway places to extract gold, silver, gems, sugar, tobacco, etc. for your nation, the richer you were.

IIRC we paid off our war debt to France eventually, you've got to do that if you want to continue being friends and engaging in trade.

[Roubignol]

Winston Churchill's quote on Stalin:

It was an experience of great interest to me to meet Premier Stalin … It is very fortunate for Russia in her agony to have this great rugged war chief at her head. He is a man of massive outstanding personality, suited to the sombre and stormy times in which his life has been cast; a man of inexhaustible courage and will-power and a man direct and even blunt in speech, which, having been brought up in the House of Commons, I do not mind at all, especially when I have something to say of my own. Above all, he is a man with that saving sense of humour which is of high importance to all men and all nations, but particularly to great men and great nations. Stalin also left upon me the impression of a deep, cool wisdom and a complete absence of illusions of any kind. I believe I made him feel that we were good and faithful comrades in this war – but that, after all, is a matter which deeds not words will prove.

Speech in the House of Commons, September 8, 1942 "War Situation".

Churchill first praised Mussolini and then Stalin.
Sir Winston Churchill ... the English hero.