bring back hanging yes or no?

[steve40]

sharkhunter thanks for posting that and in my opinion that trash that murdered that 16 year old kid are perfect candidates for the hangmans noose, one famous hangman would have made sure to do it properly and that was albert pierrepoint.

[billybunter]

Another debate being brought forward is prisoners should be fed bread and water. In prison you have all mod-cons. TV, play stations, DVDs etc. Sounds a right laugh and OAPs die every winter because they can't afford to heat their homes.

[1952224]

Originally Posted by billybunter

Another debate being brought forward is prisoners should be fed bread and water. In prison you have all mod-cons. TV, play stations, DVDs etc. Sounds a right laugh and OAPs die every winter because they can't afford to heat their homes.

thats because they have human rights something they deny to there victims

[sweatyhat]

Originally Posted by billybunter

Another debate being brought forward is prisoners should be fed bread and water. In prison you have all mod-cons. TV, play stations, DVDs etc. Sounds a right laugh and OAPs die every winter because they can't afford to heat their homes.

I think they should do "hard time."
The buggers can't riot over it in solitary, make friends or start networking. I don't expect prisons to rehabilitate criminals in any other way than to instil a fear of incarceration. I want those who are freed to remember what it was like and consider this before committing further crimes.
Trouble is there's that human rights thing again.

[billybunter]

All you have to do is watch those programs about USA jails. It is like night and day compared to this side of the pond. Over there life means LIFE. Here 10-15 years sometimes.

[Sharkhunter]

Originally Posted by sweatyhat

I think they should do "hard time."
The buggers can't riot over it in solitary, make friends or start networking. I don't expect rehabilitation. I want those who are freed to remember what it was like and consider this before committing further crimes.
Trouble is there's that human rights thing again.

That's the problem you see - when they are inside, they have a veritable army of do-gooders doing their bidding, from the PC-indoctrinated governors and medical staff through to the woolly psychologists and social workers. This is where all the money goes - I'd imagine a prison doctor gets paid twice as much as your local GP.

Were they kept away in a just about barely habitable cell and provided with a diet of water and out of date oversalted fish, we'd not have to worry about the budget. As for prison overcrowding, who really cares if we have to cram 'em in?

Now that may be a deterrent.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by billybunter

All you have to do is watch those programs about USA jails. It is like night and day compared to this side of the pond. Over there life means LIFE. Here 10-15 years sometimes.

I disagree with the death penalty simply because I do not trust the law and police; a jury fed misleading evidence would be easily led to convict based on that evidence.
One innocent life taken by the law is one too many, too many lifers have been let out as they have been found to be innocent due to tainted evidence and corrupt police (who are hardly ever held accountable) and I'm sure there are innocent people still in prison.
I'm not a liberal though and I believe convicted murderers should serve long sentences and for pre-meditated murders with no justifiable cause life should mean life with no parole.
The main problem isn't the system itself it's the soft-arses in charge of it, MP's judges, laywers etc. For every law you've got lawyers looking for loopholes.
Parole is given too easily, it has to be deserved NOT applied to everyone to free cells.

I understand why people support hanging but the likes of Timothy Evans etc. stops me from supporting that viewpoint.

[crimpo]

Wendigo is right - the crowning argument against the death penalty is the fact that innocent people were and are (in those nations which retain the death penalty) executed for crimes they are subsequently proved not to have committed.

The problem with life-is-life imprisonment is that if you raise that proportion of the prison population beyond a certain point then the result is a penal system like that of the United States which, IMHO, is a disgrace to a modern country. Merely to raise one issue - the number of murders of fellow inmates and prison staff.

However, the prison regime could certainly be rather tougher. Rehabilitation is the most socially advantageous and cost effective possible result of imprisonment BUT certain criminals should be beyond it due to their crimes (as indeed some already are) and others can be given one chance to set themselves straight. Screw that up and next time they should be in for their full sentence. Remission might also be replaced by the addition of 'time' for failure to attend to prison regulations.

Its easy to be emotionally attracted to hanging-and-flogging of certain criminals but the evidence of history shows that it really doesn't work in terms of crime rates, expense or social advantage.

[moreteavicar]

I don't agree with the death penalty simply because I believe we are more civilised than the murderers. There have been far too many cases where innocent people have been put to death in the past.

I understand that in the US, because of all the appeals and so on, it costs far more to execute a prisoner than to keep them in jail for the rest of their life. I also find it a little distasteful where people have been proved innocent but due to politics and sometimes the vanity of prosecutors that the penalty has still been sought.

Some famous executioners of the past have also apparently changed their minds on the ultimate penalty, albeit after their careers are over. Albert Pierrepoint in his autobiography Executioner: Pierrepoint said that execution achieved nothing other than revenge. The French/Algerian executioner, Fernand Meysonnier, although not rejecting execution stated that he thought that the death penalty was too soft and that 40 odd years languishing in prison was much more of a punishment than death.

[keefriff]

It has taken me many years to come to terms with this issue. For a long time I adhered to the eye for en eye approach and I can still see that side of the issue. It is hard to look at terrorists, mass murderers and child murderers and not wish them anything less than pain and death. It's very easy to feel that way and maybe in some of the most extreme cases the death penalty seems to be the only just punishment.

The problem I have with it now as that as I have grown older and perhaps more cynical it is harder and harder to have any faith or trust in the government, police or the legal system. Here in the States way too many people have been put on death row or have been executed that were later found to be innocent or convicted on tainted or illegal evidence. The case of Anthony Porter is a perfect example. Then Governor of Illinois placed a moratorium on the death penalty after this case and up to fifteen other death penalty convictions were possibly coerced through illegal means by an overzealous group of Cook County detectives. Basically the detectives were beating the crap out of guys to get confessions to crimes. Ultimately Ryan commuted 167 death penalty convictions to life in prison as one of his last acts as Governor. Of course being an Illinois politician, Governor Ryan is currently serving a prison sentence for corruption But the man did have the guts to make a stand on this issue.

I saw a great documentary about Carroll Pickett who was the Chaplain at Huntsville Prison in Texas. Part of his ministry was to talk to and be with death row inmates in the years and weeks before their executions. He personally witnessed over 95 executions. The movie also interviewed one of the guards who administered the IV that fed the lethal injections that were used in the executions. The toll it had taken on these man was devastating. Both of them were haunted by the execution of what they both thought at the time was an innocent man. This was the case of Carlos De Luna who was ultimately found to not be responsible for the murder he was executed for. It is very chilling to hear Pickett speak about this after the fact knowing that he believed that De Luna was innocent and that he didn't speak out. It changed his whole thoughts about capital punishment and he became an outspoken opponent.

The other thing about this is that, at least here in the States, jail is not that cool of a place. Especially for child killers and infamous mass murderers. Most of these guys are in lockdown for 23 hours a day to lessen any chance of contact with the general population of inmates who are itching to make a name for themselves by killing one of these types. Just ask Jeffrey Dahmer. Sitting in a 6' x 6' cell all day with nothing other than a TV and maybe some books to get through the tedium doesn't sound too great to me. If the rest of my life was going to be spent in a cage with one hour or so a day spent looking over my shoulder so someone doesn't stick a shiv in my back, I might prefer death. I think in some cases prison for life is a much more just punishment.

The other thing about this is that in the States all death sentences get an automatic appeal. Some death penalty inmates have been on death row for up to 10-15 years as their appeals drag through the courts. Of course most, if not all, of these appeals are being paid for by tax dollars as the defendents are typically represented by public defenders. These cases can drag on for years and cost millions of dollars. I wonder ultimately if the cost of this process of appeals cost more than the cost of confining the inmate for the remainder of his life. I don't now the answer to that but I bet it is pretty close to being the same.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Death_House_Door