General Election 8 June

[Wendigo]

General election 2017: Tories move to dampen tax hike fears
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39676922


I suspect we will hear all sorts of promises from all parties over the next few weeks whilst they produce their manifestos.
No one knows what the short term effects of Brexit will be so a smart position for all parties will be not to promise too much, once Brexit has finally happened and the negotiations sorted then HMG at that time will be in a better position to judge the finances, I expect we'll still have the usual ping-pong trade offs about parties not making promises fed by press vultures.

[martynz]

Could this set the cat amongst the pigeons?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rs-veto-brexit

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

General election 2017: Tories move to dampen tax hike fears
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39676922


I suspect we will hear all sorts of promises from all parties over the next few weeks whilst they produce their manifestos.
No one knows what the short term effects of Brexit will be so a smart position for all parties will be not to promise too much, once Brexit has finally happened and the negotiations sorted then HMG at that time will be in a better position to judge the finances, I expect we'll still have the usual ping-pong trade offs about parties not making promises fed by press vultures.

The Tories don't need to promise anything as Corbyn has no chance.
(No-one believes them anyway as they broke nearly all their manifesto promises)

Corbyn on the other hand can promise anything and everything because he has no chance.

[sparky10]

Soon after she became PM, because of the fiasco not to mention back-stabbing she wasn't directly elected remember, she stated NO NO NO I will NOT hold an early election, this parliament will run its term up to 2020.

With no massive change of circumstances from then we now have a U-turn. This is a perfect example of why I have no trust in any politician.

Come June 8 I wonder how many will vote directly for the party they actually want in control and how many will vote strategically to minimise a party they don't want in control winning ?

If there was a box after the choices ' none of the above ' I wonder how many would mark it ?
Could they be the largest group ?
What message would that send to them all ?
Would they finally realise how distant they are from those they believe they represent ?

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by sparky10

Soon after she became PM, because of the fiasco not to mention back-stabbing she wasn't directly elected remember, she stated NO NO NO I will NOT hold an early election, this parliament will run its term up to 2020.

With no massive change of circumstances from then we now have a U-turn. This is a perfect example of why I have no trust in any politician.

Come June 8 I wonder how many will vote directly for the party they actually want in control and how many will vote strategically to minimise a party they don't want in control winning ?

If there was a box after the choices ' none of the above ' I wonder how many would mark it ?
Could they be the largest group ?
What message would that send to them all ?
Would they finally realise how distant they are from those they believe they represent ?

It is a U turn of course. Implicitly Mrs May is admitting to having made an incorrect original choice. The most compelling argument I have heard so far is the timing of the EU exit settlement, which has to be arranged and agreed prior to late March 2019. That would have been uncomfortably close to May 2020 and the compulsory end of Mrs May's original term, putting her in a weak position and the EU in a strong position were the EU to decide to use strong-arm tactics such as a late hardening of their stance towards Gibraltar putting the UK under time pressure to cave in. With nearly two more years of her term still to go she would be better placed to face down such tactics and force the EU side to put up or shut up.

I'd like to think that the negotiations will go better than this but I noted the opening gambit on Gibraltar and I was deeply offended by it. It is possible that Mr Tusk agreed to Spanish blandishments on that one without appreciating how very badly the British would react and, having tasted the flavour of the British response, might be considering whether the Spanish have deceived him into a false position. I hope so. But if this is to be the character of the EU approach to the discussions we shall need to be extremely tough about defending our corner and to be sincere about no deal being better than a bad deal because anything less will guarantee that we will be shafted.

[knobby109]

Originally Posted by bloke57

Sorry to say that I fundamentally disagree with you. It is the term "middle class" that is entirely meaningless. The rest of us sell our labour - many, many people are one lost wage packet away from disaster and only a few away from homelessness.

We may have a few assets in later life, but for the majority of it we are wage-slaves attempting to pay off a mortgage (French for dead pledge).

I would say the Labour party is as relevant as ever but that the triumph of the right is to make us imagine that we are in control and worth something...when really we have only a few peripheral comforts. Bread and circuses.

That is Mrs Thatcher's true legacy.

Interesting that the Germans regard themselves as one great middle class then.But you overlook expectations. People now take for granted which were aspirations a generation ago,they expect a standard of living which would have seemed unobtainable.
Practically all of us sell our labour from a postman to a brain surgeon.Teachers, barristers,estate agents. That does not make them "working Class" in the Marx/Keir Hardie book, and think of a "farm labourer" driving his air conditioned tractor listening to its stereo while he plans his next holiday in Majorca.
I agree about the mortgages, property prices are outrageous. But that was the result of removing lending restrictions by banks and building societies.I could only have a mortgage amounting to 2.5 years income and this rule pegged prices.Thatcher made home ownership available to nearly all , she did not reduce the housing stock in any way , the people living in the houses were the same people.The situation is exacerbated by family breakdown so we need more houses to deal with that.

[Wendigo]

General election: Tory victory 'will not strengthen May's Brexit hand'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39681186

Theresa May's claims that a general election victory will strengthen her hand in Brexit negotiations have been called "nonsensical" by the European Parliament's chief Brexit co-ordinator.
Guy Verhofstadt, a long-standing critic of Brexit, wrote in The Observer that it was "irrelevant" whether the Conservatives increased their majority.
Mr Verhofstadt wrote: "The theory espoused by some, that Theresa May is calling a general election on Brexit in order to secure a better deal with the EU, is nonsensical.
"Will the election of more Tory MPs give Theresa May a greater chance of securing a better Brexit deal?
"For those sitting around the table in Brussels, this is an irrelevance."

Well for many of us in the UK what an overpaid Eurocrat thinks is also an irrelevance.
What sort of deal we get is still wide open however what we do not want is a deal that goes through to Parliament being blocked by other parties. HMG should be allowed to conduct negotiations and present the best deal, by that time we will know how much good/ill will the EU showed at each stage and MPs can vote on that deal.
The election is not just about securing a better deal, we could get a great deal and the Lib Dems would still vote it down as they are unshakeable Europhiles. Labour has already said there would not be another referendum and I seriously doubt they could negotiate a better deal if elected. I suspect we'd get the status quo just heroically renamed

[bloke57]

Originally Posted by knobby109

Interesting that the Germans regard themselves as one great middle class then.But you overlook expectations. People now take for granted which were aspirations a generation ago,they expect a standard of living which would have seemed unobtainable.
Practically all of us sell our labour from a postman to a brain surgeon.Teachers, barristers,estate agents. That does not make them "working Class".

Well yes, I do indeed overlook expectations - guilty as charged - because expectations are illusory. The reality is that nearly all of us sell our labour and have little else to fall back on. I found that out when I was made redundant in the 90s. Grammar school educated, degree, professional quals...so what? All the "expectations" count as nothing if no one has the cash flow to hire you.

Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree but I would just say that the generation growing up now, struggling by with the help of parents and uncles like me, cannot aspire to a better standard of living that we had - probably for the first time in a long time. I wonder if that experience will change their views on the matter and whether they will try to create a more equal society?

[bloke57]

I see Paul Nuttall of the UKIPS wants to introduce a burka ban if his party wins.

He'll have to hope no one introduces a complete berk ban or he will be in big trouble.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by bloke57

I see Paul Nuttall of the UKIPS wants to introduce a burka ban if his party wins.

He'll have to hope no one introduces a complete berk ban or he will be in big trouble.

UKIP can promise what they want as they know they will never form a Government, give them their due though they were set up for one purpose, for the UK to leave the EU, as a result of the referendum that purpose is now redundant. Mission accomplished
It's all about headline grabbing now like Corbyn's bank holiday idea.
The papers will be full of such touchy feely gimmicks from all sides for the next few months.