Lynda Carter ~ Colleen Camp Picture Debate

[DTravel]

Originally Posted by CTRFLD_Admirer

Well, re: the topless Apocalypse Now photos that some think are fake, I dug out the October 1979 issue of Playboy, that has this article entitled "Apocalypse Finally". Let me quote here from Colleen Camp:

"Actually, I think I'm psychic. At first, Linda [sic] Carter was cast in the Playmate role. Playboy did a centerfold shot with her, the whole bit (my italics). But seven months later, a typhoon had destroyed all the sets and Linda couldn't continue because of Wonder Woman, I guess."......etc

And I've had equally reliable sources report interviews with someone admitting that he did the air-brush work to create the image.

[headmaster]

Someone ought to contact the Property Master on Apocolypse now, Douglas E Madison, and ask him. Probably the only way you'll get a definitive answer and I'm sure he can't be that difficult to get in touch with. (No I'm not going to!)

[UncleMonty63]

I dont think this matter will ever be resolved, for what its worth heres my opinion, if you study Lyndas breasts (believe me i have!) they are quite "thin" on top then bulge out to their full glory, you can see this on the fake or not photo of Lynda, to me they fit the bill and lets face it she wasnt shy in those days, i,m convinced it is Lynda-it had better be, i,ve jacked off a hundred times looking at it

[Mad_Hatter]

And I've had equally reliable sources report interviews with someone admitting that he did the air-brush work to create the image.

The only source I've ever seen is the Fake Detective showing how an artist could fake it. And that was because it was the only explanation he could come up with to show that it was not genuine. Here is his quote from his website:

This fake of Lynda Carter was The Fake Detective’s most difficult and lengthy case, taking over a year to solve. But finally "General Guderian" sent us a copy of the October 1982 issue of "Expose" Magazine which contains the article for which this painting of Lynda Carter was apparently created (although they claim it was done by someone else). The article is about how airbrush artists can use airbrush techniques to put the heads of celebrities onto the bodies of relative unknowns - an unusual practice back in 1982, before digital manipulation made it commonplace. We are forever grateful to "General Guderian" for his assistance. With this case we close Book #2 of The Fake Detective’s cases and begin a long, well-deserved vacation.


My areas in bold. They claim it was done by "someone else"? So there isn't a first person source saying it was faked by them? See, nobody ever says who did it. Please note that the Fake Dick's intention from the start was to prove that this was a fake- not that it could be genuine. Then the Fake Dick says:

Addendum: Strangely, the "Playboy Centerfold" of Colleen Camp that was supposedly used as the "model" for this fake is also a fake. It was created for the movie "Apocalypse Now" and was published in a pictorial about that movie in the October 1979 issue of Playboy. Additionally, I think there is probably another shot from the same Colleen Camp photo shoot around that was the actual picture used as "the model". There are just too many small differences between the "centerfold" and the Lynda Carter fake.

Look at all the assumptions here- "I think there is probably another shot from the same Colleen Camp photo shoot". You think, but you have no proof of another shot that was used for the "faked" Lynda Carter shot? I've never seen one. See, even the Fake Dick has a problem with the fact that the poses have "small differences" (which are explained by the fact that the script called for a PM in this particular pose- first Lynda then Colleen, as shown in earlier posts), and that the photo of Colleen does not correspond with the photo of Lynda. And the centerfold shot is a "fake", too, in his POV? Famed PB Photographer Mario Casilli took the shot, so how is it a fake? A prop, sure. But a fake? The man has fakes on the brain.

His usual M.O. is by finding the original photo where a celebrity's head was pasted on. Here, he had two similar photos- Carter's and Camp's, but just enough of a difference in angles to show that this didn't happen here. How to justify it, then as a fake? Somebody painted it! But who?

I always hear of "someone knowing someone who admitted that they did it". Usually they all have the same one source- The Fake Dick based on an obscure copy of Expose Magazine. I have never ever heard anyone admit firsthand that they did it. Only thing I have ever seen is the Fake Dick showing how it could have possibly been faked by a professional artist- by showing someone with a painting of Golda Mier's face on Lynda's body. WTF?

But I will give you the benefit of a doubt. How about a link to your sources showing where someone admits they did it and can show how they did it?

I doubt that any "reliable source" is more reliable than Colleen Camp herself saying that:

Playboy did a centerfold shot with her, the whole bit

Otherwise, I still say it's being faked is an urban legend, started by the Fake Dick and spread and embellished by others- like the Vanishing Hitchhiker story. Colleen says Lynda did it- that beats a far-fetched story about someone faking it by a painting.

Nobody here seems to be able to find this copy of Expose Magazine- until we can see what it actually says, it is not a good source as "proof". Funny, though, at one time the Fake Dick included a photo of an artist with a clown nose with his painting of Golda Meir's head on her body from that article. Now he just has this- the mag cover (notice in the print above in the yellow box it says "All naked" and the first name is... Golda Meir. That's the Golda's head on Lynda's body pic that's supposed to prove that the Lynda photo is fake. What a classy mag!):

http://www.fake-detective.com/book-2/case200.jpg

I guess because it wasn't THE artist (that was "someone else"), so he removed him and his clown nose.

So, it's either:

1. A well done fake by "someone else" that nobody knows "who" exactly the painter is; based on a cheap magazine that was used by the Fake Dick as "proof" that it's a fake even though he can't quite explain the differences between it and the Colleen Camp photo that would allow photomanipulation; so another photo must be out there of Colleen Camp that nobody has seen that he used to base this fake photo of Lynda on; that it was demonstrated how it could have been done in this article in Expose Magazine by some guy with a clown nose (but he's not the guy who painted the original- that was "someone else") who painted Golda Meir's face on Lynda Carter's body for the photo they ran with the article which has now been removed from the Fake Dick's site . OR

2. It's the topless PM photo that Lynda posed for as confirmed by Colleen Camp in an article that was published in PB Magazine, October 1979, as shown by the similarity in poses that was called for in the script.

You choose.

I just wish they showed her bush, too in that centerfold shot!

[Mad_Hatter]

There's more to say, but I think I've made my point. I'm now more convinced than ever before that the photo is possibly genuine (and remember that I'm the guy who's been arguing the other way all this time). All that remains now is for some truly "hard" evidence to surface such as the identity of the photog (unlikely) or some other confirmation from Lynda or members of the Apocalypse Now production team.

Greg, somehow I overlooked this. It isn't easy for a person to actually admit that one has changed their POV, and I'm glad to see that you had the wherewithall to do so.

Mario Cassilli did the Colleen Camp photo- the Playboy article cites how they lent him out to do the centerfold and other publicity photos. It might be a safe guess he did Lynda's, too.

[DTravel]

I can't provide a link to where I read the confirmation that the Apocalypse Now centerfold image is a fake. It was many years ago and if I ever bookmarked the URL it was lost, probably during one of the changeovers to a new computer. My take on the rest (with respect).

Colleen Camp says she was told Lynda Carter did the photoshoot. She didn't see the shoot take place or, apparently, the photos resulting from it. Given some of the stories I've heard from many actors over the years I can't personally consider that as any kind of reliable evidence. You say "It might be a safe guess he (Mario Cassilli) did Lynda's, too." Has he said it shot it? Is there any source saying "This photographer shot that photo."?

One of the biggest clues that a picture is a fake is that they are usually "solo". A Playboy centerfold is the result of an entire photo shoot. They'll spend up to an entire day shooting just to get that one shot that eventually becomes the centerfold. For this they would have done a multi-hour photo shoot. There would be scores of other photos from the session, in some archive or filing cabinet somewhere. Its been thirty years now and there isn't even a rumor of other pictures, let alone any indication they exist.

As it stands now, all either of us can present is "He said, She said, They said". There's no hard evidence. (Personally I've found that to be a pretty good indicator that a picture of this nature is a fake, but that's just my experience.) Without something better than what someone says in an interview they were told about something someone else did, neither of us is going to convince the other. Until we have some examinable evidence may I suggest we agree to disagree and leave it alone?

[Mad_Hatter]

Until we have some examinable evidence may I suggest we agree to disagree and leave it alone?
09-19-2009 12:21 AM

Thomas Jefferson once said, "Discussion doesn't change opinions. It rivets them".

I will always think that this photo is genuine, and was ruined by a half-baked article in a cheesy magazine that tried to prove it by having "someone else" in a clown nose do a painting of Lynda with Golda Mier's face on it. I should have saved that photo, and the Fake Dick probably took it down because looking at it you could see how stupid this theory was. As for Colleen Camp's assertion of a topless LC photo, I doubt that PB magazine, which published the article, would have printed that if they knew it was not true. Frankly, I have a harder time believing the Fake Dick's assertions than Colleen's. Heck, she was there. A first hand witness. I see no reason to doubt her in order to believe the myriad of assumptions needed to believe its a fake. Too many "could have happeneds" for my taste. Even the Fake Dick admitted that the article never claimed to talk to the person who supposedly did it. So we're supposed to accept this as a source?

I doubt that it took hours to shoot this photo. It was for a movie, not a genuine centerfold. In movies, "Good Enough" for the cameras is sufficient. Plus if there were hundreds of photos taken, how come the only one of Colleen to surface is that one shot, too? No others have. I doubt that many were taken altogether. It's for a small subplot in a movie. Not worth devoting a lot of time to.

I still rest on the fact that nobody anywhere has ever provided proof or linked to a source or anything else to prove the existence of a person who claimed they did a fake photo of Lynda, whereas Colleen Camp herself said that such a photo was taken. She worked on the set after replacing Lynda. If anyone would know, it's her. I've been to many movie conventions, and found that the actors knew quite well all the ins and outs of the movies they worked on. It's not like it was the key grip's best friend's niece who knew Colleen said so.

All theories to the contrary are just offshoots traceable back to the original source- the Fake Dick desperately trying to prove this was a fake photo by any means necessary by relying on a source that had no bona fides.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[joe gutts]

Too bad we just can't ask Lynda if it's real or not and shut everybody up about it once and for all. I think it is genuine.

[AYHJA]

I think the photo is real...Too much work involved in faking a photo like that, and honestly, it defies all common sense...

If it were a photoshop picture, Linda's head put on some other girls body, where's that picture..? Every fake I've ever seen has come from somewhere...Find me the picture it was photoshopped from, or the girls tits they were photoshopped to, and I'll believe it...But as of right now, to say that it isn't real is being overly skeptical...

If it looks, walks, and quacks like a duck...............

[headmaster]

I've found an extra piece of the puzzle which might throw some more light on the authenticity, or not, of this photo . . .

In post #189, Greg quotes from The Apocalypse Now Book By Peter Cowie (2001, Da Capo Press):

Originally Posted by gregj1967

On page 20 it says that the original actresses cast as the Playmates were "real-life Playmates" Linda Carpenter (sounds kinda like Lynda Carter, doesn't it?), Linda Hoflich, and Cyndi Wood. The author makes a mistake by writing that Cyndi Wood was replaced by Colleen Camp, which she wasn't since Cyndi appears in both versions of the film (with a greatly expanded role in Redux). Colleen in fact replaced Playmate Linda Hoflich. Lynda Carter was a virtual unknown at the time and I think it's possible that Colleen confused her name with Linda Carpenter's or Linda Hoflich's. Maybe, maybe not. But there's absolutely no reference to Lynda Carter anywhere in this book which is the most definitive book yet written about the film.

This 'Linda Carpenter' sounded like too much of a coincidence to be true, so I did a bit more digging...

Linda Carpenter actually did appear in Apocalypse Now playing 'Miss August'. Colleen Camp was 'Miss May'. They both appear in the Playmate scene along with Playmate of the Year Cynthia Wood (pictures of this scene and of Linda Carpenter appear in the Playboy article posted earlier in this thread).

After filming, Linda Carpenter became a real life Playmate of the Month in the August, 1976 issue of "Playboy" (as Linda Beatty).

Here's the killer:

Look up Linda Carpenter on IMDB and you'll see that along with Apocalypse Now, she had three other acting roles, one of which was playing a character called Betsy in a 1976 ep of Wonder Woman called Beauty on Parade
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0139404/

Let's take a look at that Playboy interview with Collleen Camp again:

"Actually, I think I'm psychic. At first, Linda Carter was cast in the Playmate role. Playboy did a centerfold shot with her, the whole bit. But seven months later, a typhoon had destroyed all the sets and Linda couldn't continue because of Wonder Woman, I guess."

Although Apocalypse Now wasn't released until 1979, principal photography began in March 1976 and was stopped when the Typhoon struck on May 26th 1976. The Wonder Woman episode starring Linda Carpenter aired on 13th October 1976. All of which ties in with Linda Carpenter having to return from the Philippines to shoot Wonder Woman.

The Playboy article refers to a LINDA Carter, not LYNDA Carter. In my estimation this is all just a massive confusion. Perhaps the proofreader of that Playboy interview saw the name "Linda Carpenter" and Wonder Woman in the same sentence, thought it was a typo, changed it to Carter, and a huge myth was created?

Here's Lynda Carpenter's (Linda Beatty's) Centerfold:



And a link to her Vintage Erotica Forum page:

http://www.vintage-erotica-forum.com...ad.php?t=20251

Case closed? Not quite. We still don't know the source of the infamous photo. Perhaps this was Linda Carpenter's centerfold taken for Apocolypse Now onto which some bright spark, noticing the similarity in names, airbrushed Lynda Carter's head? That would account for minor differences in clothing etc, and the breasts and rib cage in the centerfold above certainly look very similar to the ones in 'our photo' . . .

I'll leave you with this thought. In order for the photo to be genuine, Linda Carter must, at the very least, have been contracted to work on Apocalypse Now. Can anyone prove beyond doubt that she was?