Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[Dr Pepper]

I still think one of the best barbed comments ever written (and someone here will confirm who said it-I'm not sure I ever learned who the originator was) was the one that said "Edward VIII went from being King of England and Emperor of India to 3rd mate on an American tramp"....
....a comment that even Wilde or Shaw could not have topped...

[scoundrel]

Very marginal to the topic, purely relevant as a historical parallel of sorts; but the Abdication Crisis of 1937 was a blessing in disguise. Edward VIII was profoundly unfit to be our King and we should all thank Wallis Simpson for inadvertently deposing him. We were very very very very lucky that our King was George VI when the really serious shit started: IMHO this man is probably the best King we ever had and I for one honour his memory [BTW we have a thread for best King/PM somewhere].

Theresa May has completely changed the negotiation dynamics by calling an election for what she expected to be a purely party-political advantage. Mrs May is a very selfish person who doesn't like negotiation or compromise and wants to simply dictate her will, and this was what she expected from the election: a majority large enough so that she could contemptuously ignore other points of view. As matters now stand she is forced to consider whether she can get the votes to pass whatever proposal she manages to agree with the EU and on the whole this is probably going to be for the good: the national good as opposed to Mrs May's narrow and selfish good.

The split in the Labour ranks over Chukka Ummuna's amendment attempting to commit the UK to remaining in the Single Market is a very interesting sign. Out of about 260 Labour MPs, only 50 supported him, a lot less than I would have guessed. I am no Corbyn fan but on this particular issue I believe he is correct and Mr Ummuna is totally up his own arse. There was a very strong majority in Labour's traditional heartlands (London excepted) in favour of Leave; and control over immigration and opposition to the Freedom of Movement of Labour were central planks of the Leave position. Mr Ummuna thinks he can just ignore that and demand what he wants rather than respect what the voters said. Mr Corbyn has listened to the voters.

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

[...].

Theresa May has completely changed the negotiation dynamics by calling an election for what she expected to be a purely party-political advantage. Mrs May is a very selfish person who doesn't like negotiation or compromise and wants to simply dictate her will, and this was what she expected from the election: a majority large enough so that she could contemptuously ignore other points of view. As matters now stand she is forced to consider whether she can get the votes to pass whatever proposal she manages to agree with the EU and on the whole this is probably going to be for the good: the national good as opposed to Mrs May's narrow and selfish good.

The split in the Labour ranks over Chukka Ummuna's amendment attempting to commit the UK to remaining in the Single Market is a very interesting sign. Out of about 260 Labour MPs, only 50 supported him, a lot less than I would have guessed. I am no Corbyn fan but on this particular issue I believe he is correct and Mr Ummuna is totally up his own arse. There was a very strong majority in Labour's traditional heartlands (London excepted) in favour of Leave; and control over immigration and opposition to the Freedom of Movement of Labour were central planks of the Leave position. Mr Ummuna thinks he can just ignore that and demand what he wants rather than respect what the voters said. Mr Corbyn has listened to the voters.

I think your are right with your description of Theresa May as her role of a politician.

As Mr. Corbin listen to the voters - nothing is bad at it.
(The other guy I don't know, but as a description of Wiki. he seems to be a neo-liberal Labour.)

But please consider: It was only a small majority to the Brexit: only 51.9% to Yes / 48,1% to No; making only 37,44 % of the eligible voters for Yes !

OK, you may say: "who didn't went to the vote; it's their own fault" ... and I have to confirm your argument.

Nevertheless, it where only 37,44 % of the eligible voters who are leaning onto the Brexit.
(Belgium is having a better solution (so I have heard) IMHO - a vote - constraint)

[bloke57]

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

Joachim Von Ribbentrop..

He was a local resident for a while - in fact I visited a house a few doors from his only yesterday. Hermann Goering's sister lived there for a while too.

[Mal Hombre]

Where was this,Minehead ?

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Brecht

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Proudhon. It's only that I agree with Marx who criticized Proudhon for not keeping himself up to date. In order to work, socialism must be founded on scientific and empirical grounds. A thorough understanding of the existing conditions is indispensable.

Obviously Marx and Proudhon went separate ways. But Marx didn't hate Proudhon. He just thought that his ideas are too naive to be of any use for an actual system change. It's not that Marx embraced violence but it was clear to him that the political and economic establishment will never agree to a social transformation in the interest of all people. They are going to cling to their class rule with all means available and have been slaughtering people for that cause ever since class rule emerged. All revolutions have been violent so far. A peaceful transformation toward a just society would be humanity's greatest deed. It's just that I can't think of any such case in history.

One of the many errors in Marxist thinking is that society can achieve a static state of perfection and then remain in this static condition. Human civilisation is dynamic and doesn't stand still. There is no perfect "just society". Wherever there is law, there is also injustice.

Revolutions happen in societies which fail to adapt to change. Most of the time societies do adapt and this is why the Maoist "permanent revolution" does not routinely arise. Sometimes revolutions are surprisingly peaceful, as for example with the end of Apartheid in South Africa or with the Orange Revolution in Ukraine in 2004. But there is never a "happily ever after" in these things because the tension between competing political interests never ends.

[haroldeye]

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

Where was this,Minehead ?

Nein - on top of Mein shoulders!

[Devius]

US President Donald Trump has said he expects a "powerful" trade deal with the UK to be completed "very quickly".

Speaking at the G20 summit in Hamburg, he said he would visit London. Asked when, he said: "We'll work that out."

In one-to-one talks, Mr Trump and UK Prime Minister Theresa May agreed to prioritise work on a post-Brexit trade deal, a UK government official said.

Mrs May said she was "optimistic" about a deal, but warned there was "a limit" to what could be done before Brexit.

She told a news conference that world leaders - including those from China, India and Japan, as well as the US - had expressed a "strong desire" to forge "ambitious new bilateral trading relationships" with Britain.

The prime minister hailed it as a "powerful vote of confidence" in Britain.

Asked about Mr Trump's visit the UK, Mrs May said: "We don't have a date yet, we are still working on a date."

Details:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40540340

[Devius]

Sir Vince Cable - the likely next Lib Dem leader - says he is "beginning to think Brexit may never happen".

He said "enormous" divisions in the Labour and the Tory parties and a "deteriorating" economy would make people think again.

"People will realise that we didn't vote to be poorer, and I think the whole question of continued membership will once again arise," he said.

He was speaking on the BBC's Andrew Marr show.

Details:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40547733

[gordian_knot]

Clutching a straws...

Remainers hope that if thay say it often enough, it might come true.