Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[@llatse@]

Originally Posted by rosestone

Al Murray the pub landlord actually wants to remain part of the European Union. He says if he were in charge, he'd give the EU any and every concession they wanted, with just one, small administrative condition........

That they change the name from the 'European Union' to the 'British Empire'.

Makes sense to me

He also said we'd be out of Europe in a few weeks and out of the Solar System in years. The only man with a real time limit.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by whop

Looks like EU will use the Danish model on UK voters. Keep having referendums until they get it right

Nonsense, whop!

The EU has no power to impose a referendum on anyone -- it's the Member States that do it

Did the EU tell UK it had to have a referendum? Of course it didn't! Cameron did it. Argue among yourselves if he was right or wrong

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by whop

I don't see UK leaving or any change in the EU, there is too much work involved and noone who wants to do it. Also no one will want to take the responsibility.

Just bring in some migrants to do it, that's what we usually do

[Wendigo]

Anyone else notice that even though the referendum is over (despite what those desperate fantasists signing online petitions think) the poll on this thread is still moving going from 66% out to 59% ish
God loves a tryer, or she would if it existed.

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

Anyone else notice that even though the referendum is over (despite what those desperate fantasists signing online petitions think) the poll on this thread is still moving going from 66% out to 59% ish
God loves a tryer, or she would if it existed.

Do you think we could have a similar poll on the 'Quest for the American Presidency' thread just to see Savage get wound up?

[gordian_knot]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

<snip>
Nevertheless, the decision is set and it is necessary to implement it. There is a lot to discuss and at the very least our government has to start meeting all the various EU ambassadors on Monday to see about convening a summit with the heads of government and agreeing a timetable and plan for organising the separation. The actual process of separation need not be rushed, as there is an awful lot to negotiate and agree; for example about the fishing rights of the EU members in British waters, which is going to be a potential flashpoint if we do not engage constructively. We must be patient and even tempered, because some of our EU counterparts are going to be bitter and angry and revengeful, and will need a chance to cool off and consider their own best interests. We have to accept that and will be wise to turn the other cheek when faced with mere hot-headed words, retaliating against actions only, simply to show we will not be bullied, but will likewise do nothing gratuitous to harm anyone else.<snip>

Farage and Johnson, if they really have/had no formal plans for how to manage the divorce, should play no part whatsoever in the process, because there is no usefulness in them. People who talk bollocks are not valuable.

I agree with the first thing here. We need to be as low key and as diplomatic as possible. Ignore the eurocrats and their posturing because at the end of the day they'll decide nothing. It'll be the various heads of state who'll really call the tune.

As for the last point, I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. It's true the Leave side didn't expect to win, but even if they had expected it, there's no way they could have done any real planning. They could have come up with some ideas on the back of a postcard but to do real planning they would have needed access to experts and the civil service, something only the government has. Hopefully, the Cabinet has now got the ball rolling but it couldn't possibly have been done by Farage or Johnson and still can't be because they hold no authority.

[whop]

Originally Posted by palo5

Nonsense, whop!

The EU has no power to impose a referendum on anyone -- it's the Member States that do it

Did the EU tell UK it had to have a referendum? Of course it didn't! Cameron did it. Argue among yourselves if he was right or wrong

You're right, I meant the pro-EUs in the UK (probably in close collaboration with the EU) will make up some excuse for another referendum. Sugarcoat the deal a bit, if necessary.

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by palo5

but my evil machiavellian side also hopes UK will lose Scotland. If what I read is correct, 62% want to be in the EU and 59% don't want to be in the UK. Looks like you'll lose there

Let's see

I have the advantage of you in that I actually live in Scotland and am perhaps a little more tuned in to the subtleties of Scottish opinion.

The EU referendum statistics would not be automatically repeated in an independence referendum, most people in Scotland do not want another such referendum and it is doubtful that a second referendum would produce a different result from the first one in 2014.

Ms Sturgeon knows that and will act accordingly

[seany65]

Posted by vinceprince:

"Boris today-

"British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market."

BUT?

"Yes, the Government will be able to take back democratic control of immigration policy, with a balanced and humane points-based system to suit the needs of business and industry."

If we stay in the 'single market' we will have no option but to keep an open border with the EU, which means we have no control over immigration from the EU.

Bojo is lying, as we already have 'democratic control' over immigration from outside the EU.

If we are to stay in the single market, we will have no option but to keep giving the EU money every year for the 'privilage', like Norway have to. I presume our 'contribution' will be bigger as our economy is bigger.

Bojo was lying when he said we would take back the money we were giving to the EU.

[scoundrel]

One wonders as well what sort of reception Mrs Sturgeon will get from EU leaders whenever she makes successionist overtures to them. On the one hand she is offering to any of them who are interested a gift wrapped opportunity to spit in Britain's eye. On the other hand, any of them who can think further ahead than their next meal will consider the implications and the precedent if they take any direct part in the internal politics of Britain. If they did so and Scotland in the end failed to break away, then the government and people of the UK would recognise the EU intervention as a hostile act and there would be some form of retaliation from the UK just as sure as God made little green apples. Some of them might also wonder about their own successionist provinces and whether their own territorial integrity would be well served by allying themselves to Nicola Sturgeon. Only one veto will be enough to blackball her. She may succeed, but she has many obstacles in her path if she plans to break away and rejoin the EU.

I heard her on the radio yesterday urging the line that she is not seeking to leave and rejoin, but merely seeking not to go at all. I think myself that this is not going to work. But she loses nothing by giving it a try.