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View Poll Results: Leave The EU or stay in The EU?
Leave The EU. 278 56.73%
Stay in The EU. 175 35.71%
I don't care either way/won't be voting. 25 5.10%
I'd rather not say. 12 2.45%
Voters: 490. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-14-2017, 06:44 PM   #2411
palo5
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Originally Posted by otokonomidori View Post
We've survived much worse hostility than that
Only from the English

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As for the EU business-i t's no different from buying an old car...
I know they lied to you, but didn't know it know it was that crude

If you bought that.... well didn't anyone tell you not to be a simpleton?
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:18 PM   #2412
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Originally Posted by palo5 View Post
Very bad argument, imho. It's true you joined a common market,
So far so good, if only you had put your Pravda approved keyboard away at that point.

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Originally Posted by palo5 View Post
but every evolution since then has been supported by your government, and you know that. When they didn't like it, they got "opt-outs". You know that too. You also got a rebate, which means you don't pay as much to the EU as you should, and almost never have
Very bad counter argument imho
Did Poland, Romania, Hungary & others vote to join the Warsaw Pact ?
NO the people were forced into a post war arranged marriage and had no say when the USSR regime turned it's more brutal face towards them.
The other EU nations must have agreed that Britain was paying over the odds or else why did they agree to the rebate?? Were they just stupid????

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Originally Posted by palo5 View Post
"Every aspect of our lives" and "faceless Eurocrats" is a brainless fallacy for unenquiring minds. The EU does not dictate your foreign policy, tax policy, immigration policy, police policy, defense policy etc etc. It even allows your corrupt financial sector to ruin economies. So what are your problems? That they tell you, that you have to adhere to food quality standards, that you need hygiene in food production, that you need to be in line with technical developments in your legislation?
Foreign policy - The EU dictates who we can trade with, all deals have to be agreed.
Police policy - The UK opted out EU policing and criminal justice measures
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/u...stice-measures
The fact we opted out means these measures exist
Defence policy - https://eeas.europa.eu/topics/common...policy-csdp_en

No matter how you slice it the EU by its very nature has its claws in every policy sector, it is an embryonic European super state. Britain voted against that in a fair vote, we chose to be governed by our own Parliament, just accept it and move on, nothing more to see here, it happened, live with it

Believe it or not we actually had laws before we joined the EEC.

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Give me a break, please. They're only telling you what you should know anyway
No breaks here .....sorry but people still moaning about what happened a year on after the vote is is pretty feeble.

Lies were told on all sides of the argument. That's the nature of politics
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:02 PM   #2413
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Originally Posted by Wendigo
...when Britain joined the EU it was sold to us in the 1970's as a Common Market; what we never voted for is to be ruled on every aspect of our lives by faceless Eurocrats...


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Originally Posted by palo5 View Post
Very bad argument, imho. It's true you joined a common market, but every evolution since then has been supported by your government, and you know that. When they didn't like it, they got "opt-outs". You know that too. You also got a rebate, which means you don't pay as much to the EU as you should, and almost never have

"Every aspect of our lives" and "faceless Eurocrats" is a brainless fallacy for unenquiring minds. The EU does not dictate your foreign policy, tax policy, immigration policy, police policy, defense policy etc etc. It even allows your corrupt financial sector to ruin economies. So what are your problems? That they tell you, that you have to adhere to food quality standards, that you need hygiene in food production, that you need to be in line with technical developments in your legislation?

Give me a break, please. They're only telling you what you should know anyway

As for "faceless Eurocrats" you can look them up on the web. Almost no one in the EU knows who your representatives are either, but it doesn't mean their input is hated

Comrade Palo5-ski, What I think wendigo is actually alluding to is we were told by our Govt. that the Birt Govt. wanted to join a loose federation of countries that had got together to make trading a bit easier. They did so without a vote by the British public. When, several years later we were asked to vote on whether to stay in it, that is what we believed.

We had no idea that the EEC (European Economic Community) as we understood it never really existed and that the whole point of the organisation was to get total european integration into an increasingly (albeit slowly increasingly) powerful monolithic state, the founders of which never believed that the general public should know about this plan nor have a vote on the plan.

Some of us are coming to see this, and coming to mistrust the future that the EU's leaders want for the EU and the individual countries that at present make it up.

Some of us see no reason why each country in the EU needs to disappear into a European superstate in order for us to trade together. No-one has asked africa to join/disapear in the EU and we trade with them. No-one has asked china to join and disappear in the EU and we trade with them, so why do european countries have to disappear in ordere to trade in europe?

The 'power' that the EU has now is miniscule compared to the power they want. Why else would they want a single integrated European army? Why esle are they slowly getting the laws toghether necassary for single judicial system?

Why esle does the EU prevent any EU member making it's own trade deals with other countries? Is it really just to be sure that safety standards are maintained?
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:12 PM   #2414
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Originally Posted by palo5 View Post
Very bad argument, imho. It's true you joined a common market, but every evolution since then has been supported by your government, and you know that. When they didn't like it, they got "opt-outs". You know that too. You also got a rebate, which means you don't pay as much to the EU as you should, and almost never have

"Every aspect of our lives" and "faceless Eurocrats" is a brainless fallacy for unenquiring minds. The EU does not dictate your foreign policy, tax policy, immigration policy, police policy, defense policy etc etc. It even allows your corrupt financial sector to ruin economies. So what are your problems? That they tell you, that you have to adhere to food quality standards, that you need hygiene in food production, that you need to be in line with technical developments in your legislation?

Give me a break, please. They're only telling you what you should know anyway

As for "faceless Eurocrats" you can look them up on the web. Almost no one in the EU knows who your representatives are either, but it doesn't mean their input is hated
You made a better rebuttal on some of the Brexit arguments than the pro remain politicians.
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Old 11-15-2017, 02:30 AM   #2415
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Originally Posted by palo5 View Post
Only from the English



I know they lied to you, but didn't know it know it was that crude

If you bought that.... well didn't anyone tell you not to be a simpleton?
We're all British here Palo.

Simple as it is [and as I am in your opinion], I stand by my contention that willingness to walk away from negotiations by either party, is a essential part of any deal making process.

Last edited by otokonomidori; 11-15-2017 at 06:54 AM..
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Old 11-15-2017, 05:50 AM   #2416
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Default The IMF has warned a "disruptive" Brexit could slow growth in both the UK and EU

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) said on Monday that while Europe’s economy is strengthening, Brexit could cause prolonged policy and economic uncertainty for both the UK and the European Union.

The IMF’s latest regional economic outlook said there would be “significant negative impact on economic activity” if no deal is reached, with a notable increase in trade barriers, potentially accompanied by disruption of services in various sectors.

The report, which looks at more than 40 countries, said the European recovery is spilling over to the rest of the world, contributing significantly to global growth.

In the euro area, growth has been revised up to 2.1 per cent for 2017, from 1.7 per cent in the April report, and to 1.9 per cent for 2018 from 1.6 per cent in April.

In contrast, growth in the United Kingdom is projected to slow to 1.7 per cent in 2017 and 1.5 per cent in 2018, as Brexit weighs on growth.


Details:
http://www.cityam.com/275656/imf-has...growth-both-uk
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:38 AM   #2417
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Originally Posted by palo5 View Post
Very bad argument, imho. It's true you joined a common market, but every evolution since then has been supported by your government, and you know that. When they didn't like it, they got "opt-outs". You know that too. You also got a rebate, which means you don't pay as much to the EU as you should, and almost never have

"Every aspect of our lives" and "faceless Eurocrats" is a brainless fallacy for unenquiring minds. The EU does not dictate your foreign policy, tax policy, immigration policy, police policy, defense policy etc etc. It even allows your corrupt financial sector to ruin economies. So what are your problems? That they tell you, that you have to adhere to food quality standards, that you need hygiene in food production, that you need to be in line with technical developments in your legislation?

Give me a break, please. They're only telling you what you should know anyway

As for "faceless Eurocrats" you can look them up on the web. Almost no one in the EU knows who your representatives are either, but it doesn't mean their input is hated
Bravo

Besides some very sound arguments already being shared in this thread, this is perhaps the best description of the situation present and past.

It gives me some sort of relief that it comes from a "Non-EU"-member who has an un-biased view on things.

O.K., letting Mr. Putin aside...
.
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Old 11-15-2017, 04:28 PM   #2418
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Comrade Palo5-ski, What I think wendigo is actually alluding to is...
Thanks, but I knew what he was going to say before he said it. Euro-politically, we are complete opposites. And of course, he thinks Britain is democratic and can do nothing wrong, and I have never thought they're democratic and know they do wrong

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The 'power' that the EU has now is miniscule compared to the power they want. Why else would they want a single integrated European army?...
Well, that's an interesting about-face. One minute they interfere with "every aspect of your lives" and now their power is miniscule

But the question of a European army is easy to answer: they want to disconnect from Nato, which core-members see is a US foreign policy tool. They're right about that

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Why else does the EU prevent any EU member making it's own trade deals with other countries? Is it really just to be sure that safety standards are maintained?
No, it's because we make deals collectively and want ALL standards to be maintained. Really, it's not hard to understand. If we allow individual states to make trade deals, and individual states can import what they like and also export what they like to other Members, then we have no valid standards
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Old 11-15-2017, 06:28 PM   #2419
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Thanks, but I knew what he was going to say before he said it. Euro-politically, we are complete opposites. And of course, he thinks Britain is democratic and can do nothing wrong, and I have never thought they're democratic and know they do wrong

Er, not quite comrade and let's be honest you know it is is total utter red-tinted bollocks.

I have stated many times in many threads, where you have gone off on this now tired and worn out Anti-British crusade of yours, that I do not and have never believed the old "my country, wrong or right" adage but you cannot seem to grasp that as it does not fit in with your Kremlin fed propaganda.

So let me say once more to see if it will finally sink in, yes Britain as a country (regardless of whatever political party at the time) has done plenty bad things in the past as has every country. However it has also done lots of great things we should be proud of. I will accept even Russia has probably done some good things, although I cannot be arsed Googling it

You have your view of our democracy, but as a Brit if I had to look at taking advice from a Russian national on democracy, well let's just leave it with a few more shall we
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:21 PM   #2420
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I will accept even Russia has probably done some good things, although I cannot be arsed Googling it

Periodic table of the elements was thought up by a Russki - that's all I can think of without Googling.

Anyway I'm off to France in the morning - no doubt les grenouilles will be warming my ears about Brexit.
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