Tanks!!

[Mal Hombre]

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper

I refer you to my previous comments about how critical the turret ring diameter is-and the consequences of having it too small...... Q.E.D.

...and it gave the crews an equally nasty surprise when they realised they had to be 'hull up' to engage anything with the 75mm...unless firing indirect....which is not a great deal of use tank vs tank...

True,But a hull mounted 75mm is better than a 40mm in a turret...

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper

...and it gave the crews an equally nasty surprise when they realised they had to be 'hull up' to engage anything with the 75mm...unless firing indirect....which is not a great deal of use tank vs tank...

There was a well done wargame from Avalon Hill, mid 1970s, called "Tobruk" (title is a bit misleading, it was about squad/company level armored warfare in North Africa more generally than Tobruk itself) which was the only game I can recall that reflected the significance of gun position and the ability to get hull down behind, say a sand dune.

It also reflected the varying vulnerability of armor based on direction. Worth hunting down for folks interested in the subject.

[Edit] Shows you how vintage I am. The venerable Tobruk [1975] has been updated -- the current "Advanced Tobruk System" is based on the same ideas, but has a lot more detail, a broader scope, and a lot of refinements. A _very_ detailed look at armor hardware and tactics.



GMT Games has done something similar called "Panzer" and a modern version "MBT"

[Dr Pepper]

A nice wee clip of how to start a Tiger the hard way.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROnb5ouBjNc

[Rogerbh]

Did Avalon Hill combine Tobruk with Squad Leader?

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

Did Avalon Hill combine Tobruk with Squad Leader?

They're different systems covering more or less the same material. Tobruk came before Squad Leader, and has since moved to a different company, while AH chose to develop SL.

The Tobruk system remains more oriented towards armor, while ASL has always been more about infantry, with armor as an addition.

[sean612]

how many here actually ever drove in or were part of an armored warfare unit, I was a 19 Kilo, Bradley scout 2 regiment 24 Mech,2nd. IFD scouts

[Dr Pepper]

Originally Posted by sean612

how many here actually ever drove in or were part of an armored warfare unit,

Yes. Initially an APC Sqn, then heavy anti armour, finally armd recon

[grandusdickus]

ATS or Advanced Tobruk system was an interesting alternative to squad leader, with a better sequence of play and a more realistic tank figthing...
Alas ! Instead of improving, the company (criticalhit) has gone crazy, producing more and more silly modules (WW1, Civil War... with nearly the same rules), totally unrealistic, untested, an very expensive !

And with many quality problems (a lot of missing parts in games and a VERY bad after sales service), ATS is no more distributed in specialised wargame shops...

Sad end for what could have been an improved ASL...

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by grandusdickus

ATS or Advanced Tobruk system was an interesting alternative to squad leader, with a better sequence of play and a more realistic tank figthing...
Alas ! Instead of improving, the company (criticalhit) has gone crazy, producing more and more silly modules (WW1, Civil War... with nearly the same rules), totally unrealistic, untested, an very expensive !

That's too bad, thanks for that

I played the original Tobruk [1975] a lot, and thought it was interesting and made you think about tank and anti-tank tactics. Lotta dice rolling, that was the only downside I can remember.

Can be found used on eBay for not much money.

[Jack Rabbit]

I haven't checked all 61 pages of this thread so I don't know if this was posted here already, but I came across this film about russians abusing their tanks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOia4KtDO7Y