Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[seany65]

Am I correct in remembering that the EU made Spain and Italy accept the temporary replacement of elected prime ministers by EU bankers shortly after the 2008 crash?

Does any remainer here think that if there were to be another vote-the so-called "people's vote" (which we've already had, as far as I'm concerned), you (or any other remainer that you know of) would actually consider the deal on offer or do anything other than automatically vote remain?

[haroldeye]

Macron admitted that if there was a vote on the EU in France the leavers stood a good chance of winning.

[haroldeye]

Laberbake - British Foreign policy was not to keep the French and Germans apart - Germany as a country didn't exist until the 1880's. British policy was clear, prevent any one state becoming all powerful and make sure that the Western seaboard in the North Sea was not controlled by any one state.

Many people hoped that our entry into the EEC would act as a bar to Franco German expansionism but sadly our politicians and civil servants got carried away with themselves. You may say a lot of bad things about the Foreign Office, but you can never accuse them of Patriotism.

[vo1v0d]

We used to laugh at Yes Minister/Yes Prime Minister but the ridiculous byzantine farcical policies portrayed were more factual than the policies and actions we actully believe are being pursued.
The only defeats worth celebrating are those of our allies etc. etc

[palo5]

Originally Posted by seany65

Does any remainer here think that if there were to be another vote-the so-called "people's vote" (which we've already had, as far as I'm concerned), you (or any other remainer that you know of) would actually consider the deal on offer or do anything other than automatically vote remain?

I read a large number of opinions, and if the choice was May's deal or no-deal in a new referendum, I think many remainers would back May's deal, because no-deal looks even more horrifying to them

But, as noted by many people, including hardcore leavers, May's deal has the potential to be very bad for UK. I'm sometimes critical of Britain, but even I wouldn't want that deal inflicted on them. They'd definitely have a tough phase where they pay for membership but have no representation in the EU Council or Parliament. They'd also be excluded from any sensitive security arrangements and projects

They can accept that, and depending on your position, you could even grin from schadenfreude. But, if the backstop kicks in, they could be stuck in the EU framework indefinitely, also with no representation, but this time with no legal way of getting out unless the EU agrees

This is an extremely undignified and shamingly bad position to be in. As critical as I sometimes am of their country, I hope my UK friends do not find themselves in that situation

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by palo5

This is an extremely undignified and shamingly bad position to be in. As critical as I sometimes am of their country, I hope my UK friends do not find themselves in that situation

Well, it seems the EU has given the UK a way to back out of this . . .

Originally Posted by Article 50: Law officer says UK can cancel Brexit

The UK should be able to unilaterally cancel its withdrawal from the EU, according to a top European law officer.

The non-binding opinion was delivered by an advocate general of the European Court of Justice.

A group of Scottish politicians has asked the court whether the UK can call off Brexit without the consent of other member states.

The Court of Justice (ECJ) will deliver its final ruling at a later date.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland...itics-46428579

This is a hopeful sign and a step in the right direction.

[Mal Hombre]

Just mischief making,Trying to give Nigel Farage a heart attack-A noble end in it's self..

[Wendigo]

Going back to as we were before the referendum is not a step in the right direction though personally I feel it would be stabbing those of us who voted Leave in the back.

There may be a move by the EU to take back us troublesome Brits back but what does that say about Parliament respecting an actual people's vote (not this fantasy vote people are now bleating about)

I'd like to know what this full Brexit legal advice was and now we will know
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46446694

We can judge why it was considered to be in the Public Interest to withhold it when it is released tomorrow.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

Going back to as we were before the referendum is not a step in the right direction though personally I feel it would be stabbing those of us who voted Leave in the back

Transparent, legal mechanisms are not "stabs in the back" even if you don't like them. But if there is another referendum and you win it, there won't be much to argue about

However, 50% + 1 has never cut it, in many opinions. For major Constitutional change, a super majority is needed in all modern democracies. Just not in yours. One day you'll figure it out, and I hope you don't get this problem every decade until you do

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by palo5

Transparent, legal mechanisms are not "stabs in the back" even if you don't like them. But if there is another referendum and you win it, there won't be much to argue about

There may be a legal mechanism that can be used to get us to go back into the EU but to me this is just like go on have another vote and tick the right box this time or you'll have to keep doing it.

Another referendum will only serve to divide the country further as there can not be a simple yes/no question.

We had a vote, people knew what was at stake and the UK has had a long history of Euroscepticism, this will only serve to compound the feelings many of us have that there are big wheels turning behind the scenes to scupper the result of the original vote.

If a further vote was forced on us I would possibly consider abstaining as even if Leave still won I am sure the same shit will be flung from the sidelines. The vested interests won't take no for an answer.
If Remain won with 52% as I have previously said they would no doubt trumpet that as an outstanding majority.