Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[Roger Allott]

Details of the agreement are slipping out and it's clear that TM has negotiated a deal that's about the average of what everyone wants. The problem is though that it's nothing like what anyone wants.


The chances of it being passed by the UK parliament seem to be pretty close to zero unless there are some huge climb-downs by some very belligerent people.


The only viable option is to put it to a public vote. We've now got 3 clear options: we leave the EU with no deal, we accept the deal proposed by Mrs May, we remain a constituent member of the EU.


Instead of the winner being determined by which option gets the biggest minority, the least favourable one should be eliminated and we go to a run-off vote over the other two. This could be done easiest with the ballot being on an Alternative Vote basis.


.

[Wendigo]

The flipside of that is how long will the EU be prepared to wait? they need to get on with their daily business
As for holding another referendum well that has been ruled out by both May and Corbyn so as all politicians lie that is clearly still an option

However a further 2 votes is unlikely and will probably lead to a more divided Britain, the chances of the EU allowing us to remain with all our previous opt outs intact is remote, they will no doubt want a clear confirmation that we will not again attempt to leave.

[judy84]

May will announce that she has respected the referendum by securing a deal where we pay £39 Billion to Leave something that we haven’t actually left by agreeing to worse terms to remain than we had before we even bothered voting to leave.


Questions to ask:


1. How much is it costing in addition to "divorce bill" in terms of budget contributions per year?
2. Are we still in CFP and CAP?
3. Is ECJ in charge of when we can leave CU?
4. When can we start making trade deals?
5. Are we paying towards EDF, European Peace Fund, Eurozone bailout fund etc.?
6. How long do we have to keep FOM?
7. How many refugees will we be forced to take?
8. Will the UK be in the EU’s Common Foreign and Security Policy (CFSP) and its Common Security and Defence Policy (CSDP)?


There needs to be a leadership challenge to get rid of her

[Wendigo]

Cabinet backs draft Brexit agreement
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46215930


Details will be released soon but I suspect a capitulation that alongside her gross historic fuck up of calling a snap general election that backfired in her face will make her the possibly the most incompetent PM we have ever had and may ease Corbyn's way into 10 Downing Street.
I for one will never vote Conservative again, I cannot bring myself to vote Labour so if this is the equivalent of a surrender I will probably never vote again as if the establishment don't like how we vote they simply stonewall and block it.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by judy84

Questions to ask:

1. How much is it costing in addition to "divorce bill" in terms of budget contributions per year? Unknown
2. Are we still in CFP and CAP? Not that I can see, but must read the agreement. The subject is fabulously complicated
3. Is ECJ in charge of when we can leave CU? No, but you can't leave CU without EU agreement
4. When can we start making trade deals? When you leave the CU. See above
5. Are we paying towards EDF, European Peace Fund, Eurozone bailout fund etc.? Not that I can see
6. How long do we have to keep FOM? Depends what you mean. If everything is visa-free, you can't stop movement. But you can stop people becoming permanent residents
7. How many refugees will we be forced to take? None, unless you have agreements with other organizations
8. Will the UK be in the EU’s Common Foreign and Security Policy (CFSP) and its Common Security and Defence Policy (CSDP)? If you agree to EU data laws, which are governed by EU/ECJ

Those are my best guesses. But you can read the draft agreement here. It's 580+ pages, but loads fast:

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...greement_0.pdf

[seagal99]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

Cabinet backs draft Brexit agreement
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46215930


Details will be released soon but I suspect a capitulation that alongside her gross historic fuck up of calling a snap general election that backfired in her face will make her the possibly the most incompetent PM we have ever had and may ease Corbyn's way into 10 Downing Street.
I for one will never vote Conservative again, I cannot bring myself to vote Labour so if this is the equivalent of a surrender I will probably never vote again as if the establishment don't like how we vote they simply stonewall and block it.

Thats right they called a referendum because they thought remain would win, now all they keep on about is another referendum. They were saying people are losing faith in politics/politicians another referendum will only make a mockery of democracy. How many times has a politician said "another referendum is needed because the people did'nt understand what they were voting for" how patronising is that.

[scoundrel]

There seems to be rather a good chance that Mrs May's non-Leave Brexit plan will be rejected in a House of Commons vote. There are all sorts of possibilities, not least that the DUP will decide not to support it. But of course a harder Brexit would also attract Tory opponents.

If Parliament is unable to deliver a viable agreement between Britain and the EU, then 29 March will arrive regardless and Britain will have run out of time. That will be messy and damaging but will at least be a clear outcome. Mrs May's plan is unclear. I can't quite fathom why she thinks anyone wants what she is offering.

Right from the beginning, I felt strongly that leaving the EU makes sense only if Britain really leaves. There has been so much nonsense such as Labour's five conditions, hugely eloquent of people who cannot accept that they lost the argument. Mrs May needs to explain how her plan will take Britain away from the authority of the EU and reinstate our own authority to control our own affairs, including immigration, agriculture and fisheries. Otherwise, there is no point to her plan.

[bubbs999]

Originally Posted by seagal99

Thats right they called a referendum because they thought remain would win, now all they keep on about is another referendum. They were saying people are losing faith in politics/politicians another referendum will only make a mockery of democracy. How many times has a politician said "another referendum is needed because the people did'nt understand what they were voting for" how patronising is that.

" You simple minded 'little people' need to keep us in high office - we know what is best for this country. You couldn't possibly understand how complex this is. Let us get on. we are your betters " - THIS IS WHAT TORY'S THINK


"This deal is in the best interests of the British people and this country " - TERESSA MAY

HORSE CRAP !

This 'negotiation' has been royally fucked up from the start. This government has friterred away 2 years and couldn't convince a man on fire of the merits of a bucket of water.

We have asked for so little from this 'Brexit' deal, that Barnier and his cohorts are pissing themselves laughing at us, when they aren't rubbing their hands together at the thought of how they are gonna spend our £40,000,000,000 ; that we are giving them in return for NOTHING.

We should sack May, tell the EU to fuck themselves, and they can whistle for their £40 Billion.

A 'no deal' brexit and uk business worries can be eased by the grease an extra £40 billion in the treasury coffers can provide. Lets not forget, European businesses don't want trade barriers - we buy much more of their stuff, than they buy of ours.
I can't wait for the look on the faces of French and German leaders, when Barnier and his cronies realise we ain't paying up, and ask all the others EU leaders for more money. They'll want them to pay for any shortfall. None of them will be smiling then.

[DB83]

Anyone actually even attempt to read that daft (no mis-spelling) agreement ?

I watched St. Theresa's speech live and she was hardly convincing. 'Collective agreement' my arse. Not when, as has been reported, that appr. 10 of her ministers rejected it. Yet I guess that none of these will have the balls (ladies included) to resign.

And if our elected representatives also have any balls it has a cat's chance in a dog's home to get through parliament.

Best part of two and a half years and the words of a rather aptly named 'Talking Heads' song play in my head. "We are on a road to nowhere"

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by bubbs999

This 'negotiation' has been royally fucked up from the start. This government has friterred away 2 years and couldn't convince a man on fire of the merits of a bucket of water.

No one in the UK government knows what they really want to achieve. The big opportunity to set out a vision, state objectives and win a mandate to deliver Brexit in a specific format was in the 2017 general election, but none of the major parties discussed the question. Instead they focused on non-Brexit issues and it became a distraction wasting time better spent on negotiating and planning. It also weakened Mrs May fatally into the negotiations afterwards.

Originally Posted by bubbs999

We have asked for so little from this 'Brexit' deal, that Barnier and his cohorts are pissing themselves laughing at us, when they aren't rubbing their hands together at the thought of how they are gonna spend our £40,000,000,000 ; that we are giving them in return for NOTHING.

We have no vision of what our future outside the EU should be. Therefore we don't ask for anything intelligently.

If we want to be self-governing, we should have been much firmer on refusing to allow the EU to dictate to us on Northern Ireland. Last year they were refusing to even begin trade talks until they were satisfied with progress on Northern Ireland. We should have walked away and told them to phone us and let us know whenever they decided to take their heads out of their own arses. But as we now know, our Dear Leader didn't actually have a plan; so the EU imposed delay to starting trade talks was fine by her.

Originally Posted by bubbs999

We should sack May, tell the EU to fuck themselves, and they can whistle for their £40 Billion.

Not really an option. We made commitments at a time when everyone, the British not the least, expected we would be there for keeps. As we did with Iceland when Iceland wanted to welch on the bank deposit guarantees for Icesave, the EU can and probably would merely seize our assets. Better to make a virtue of necessity and pay what we owe. You need to allso bear in mind that we are not leaving Europe at all - we are only leaving the EU. If we try to serve our neighbors a crook deal we will not enjoy good relations afterwards.

Originally Posted by bubbs999

A 'no deal' brexit and uk business worries can be eased by the grease an extra £40 billion in the treasury coffers can provide. Lets not forget, European businesses don't want trade barriers - we buy much more of their stuff, than they buy of ours.

First of all, part of the problem with the EU is that it is badly run by people who do not know how to run an economy sensibly. The loss of jobs and markets will not weigh much with them compared with the need to punish Britain for leaving.

Secondly, there are 27 other EU countries and they pool the ill effects of losing British trade. Britain takes 100% of the lost EU trade on the chin. I reckon it is only Ireland which will really sustain a crippling economic blow. Ireland trades with Britain a lot. But overall, they'll let it happen and accept the lost British trade. It doesn't scare them.

Originally Posted by bubbs999

I can't wait for the look on the faces of French and German leaders, when Barnier and his cronies realise we ain't paying up, and ask all the others EU leaders for more money. They'll want them to pay for any shortfall. None of them will be smiling then.

It won't happen. Britain will pay up.