Questions For Our Russian Friends

[turat]

Originally Posted by Motorboater

Why does Russia host a grand prix?

It's not a motor racing country.

Maybe not but they're car crazy just like the rest of us:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...JE4K66Zzc_8xPs

[Motorboater]

Originally Posted by palo5

Who said it's about motor racing? F1 is about money, not racing

it's alright going on about money. But money is used for a purpose. I don't think Russia would get the value of hosting a GP, because there isn't a strong motorsport culture.

It can't even be a niche as a the former communist country promoting
western capitalist ideals, because Hungary nailed that down in the 80s

[scoundrel]

There are proposals afoot to reintroduce the wolf into Britain, at least 300 years since it was eradicated from here.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33017511

Now it would appear that to want to reintroduce the wolf and to be able to reintroduce the wolf are two very different things, but nevertheless the proposals are quite practical and might well happen. So I thought I might consult VEF members from a place where the wolf has never gone away, and ask if we should be worried?

[palo5]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

There are proposals afoot to reintroduce the wolf into Britain, at least 300 years since it was eradicated from here.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33017511

Now it would appear that to want to reintroduce the wolf and to be able to reintroduce the wolf are two very different things, but nevertheless the proposals are quite practical and might well happen. So I thought I might consult VEF members from a place where the wolf has never gone away, and ask if we should be worried?

The question is what they are going to eat. We calculate they consume at least 12 moose per year each, plus reindeer and other available animals. They can kill unprepared humans too

If you're happy for them to eat your sheep & much smaller deer, and aren't worried that your campers & tourists will be frightened, it's not a problem

But I think your farmers & landowners will not like it, and will defy any law you make to protect the wolves

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by palo5

The question is what they are going to eat. We calculate they consume at least 12 moose per year each, plus reindeer and other available animals. They can kill unprepared humans too

If you're happy for them to eat your sheep & much smaller deer, and aren't worried that your campers & tourists will be frightened, it's not a problem

But I think your farmers & landowners will not like it, and will defy any law you make to protect the wolves

There are interesting ecological arguments in favour of wolf introduction. One key argument is that the Scottish red deer population is out of control due to the lack of an apex predator, the role which the wolf traditionally performed. We have many thousands of deer roaming free (circa 360,000 per the Scotish Parliament Information Centre, probably sufficient to support 100-200 wolves and still leave plenty for human hunters to take.

But as you say, there are other issues.

The proposal appears to be a fenced-in nature reserve covering the Strathallen Estate, which is rather big and incorporates two glens [a glen is a mountain valley in Scotland] and a lot of hill terrain in between. What public footpaths there are in this land I couldn't say, but it is privately owned land and even the Ramblers Association has never argued that people should be allowed to go absolutely anywhere on private land. What I do not know is how wolves behave when humans are nearby. Do they do a fade, or do they put napkins around their necks?

[Dr Pepper]

Interesting proposal-I suppose an equally key question-which I'd like to think SOMEONE has asked in the process of putting this proposal together-is what is the likely rate of population growth in the wolf population if such a reintroduction was to go ahead? Has someone done any modelling?
Reintroduction of an apex predator to control burgeoning pest species populations is fine.....in theory....until the predator species population grows to pest proportions themselves.....and/or starts to prey on domesticated animals rather than the pest it was introduced to control.....

Two cautionary examples (of the dozens that exist) -both from my part of the world:

(1) rabbits were introduced into NZ as early as the 1830s-both as a source of food and sport (and because they reminded the early white settlers of Merrie England!)-they rapidly grew to pest levels-and in some parts of the country-most notably the central south island hill country-to plague levels.
[I kid you not-in the 70s and 80s-I've seen hillsides move like grass in the wind-but it was rabbits not grass moving!]

Answer: OK we'll introduce mustelids (especially stoats and ferrets) to control the rabbit population.....WRONG....said stoats and ferrets found NZ native birds-many of which are flightless and ground dwelling-far more to their taste-and caused-and continue to cause-massive damage to native bird populations (and very little to rabbit populations...)

Meanwhile the rabbits continue to thrive-though not quite at the plague levels of the 70s 80s and 90s.... the link below shows what happens when people get desperate for solutions....

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/rabbits/page-8

(2) Cane toads were introduced into Australia in 1935 (to northern Queensland) to predate the native beetles that attacked sugar cane. They too rapidly became pests-and worse still-are expanding their range southwards and westwards and having a major effect on ecology-not in the least because not only do they have no natural predators-but are highly toxic as well-generally killing any animal that does attempt to eat them. And embarrassingly-the toad had very little effect on the beetle populations it was introduced to control....

I encountered the beasts at close hand during my peacekeeping stint in Bougainville-where they were rife. Some of my more twisted colleagues at PMG HQ in Loloho used to play 'cane toad golf'......and 'anti dodgems' on the road between Loloho and the main town of Arawa-the aim being to see how many you could squash with your vehicle on the journey...


Its interesting that there seems to be a current movement for reintroducing 'extinct' species to their former habitats-only a few days ago I saw an article where aurochs were being reintroduced in areas of the Czech republic

[bombermouse]

Where I live in the USA, there are wolves. No humans have ever been attacked or threatened. They eat a lot of game and some livestock, too. Many hunters are violently anti-wolf, thinking the wolves are depriving them of game. No really good hunters that I know share this viewpoint, mostly it's people who don't get their deer or elk and blame the wolves instead of their lack of skill. Livestock is another issue, the government relocates or eradicates wolves that prey on livestock and ranchers are compensated for their losses.

[DTravel]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

What I do not know is how wolves behave when humans are nearby. Do they do a fade, or do they put napkins around their necks?

For the most part they avoid humans. There are always exceptions but for the most part wolves are smart enough to have learned not to mess with the two-leggeds. A lot of them seem to be able to strike you dead and they tend to be big on revenge if you attack one.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

We have many thousands of deer roaming free (circa 360,000 per the Scotish Parliament Information Centre...)

I did a triple-take when I read that number. Considering how small Scotland is (77,000 sq km), and that only 4% of it is natural forest, it looks like a fantasy number to me

But I checked other sites, and one of them said there were 750,000. If that's the case, no one would need to hunt deer because there must be be 10 or so in the back yard of every non-city dwelling

Maybe you do need a wolf of two

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by palo5

I did a triple-take when I read that number. Considering how small Scotland is (77,000 sq km), and that only 4% of it is natural forest, it looks like a fantasy number to me

But I checked other sites, and one of them said there were 750,000. If that's the case, no one would need to hunt deer because there must be be 10 or so in the back yard of every non-city dwelling

Maybe you do need a wolf of two

The over population of red deer is a key reason why so much of the Scottish hill terrain is open moorland rather than Scots Pine and other woodland; with similar, and harsher conditions, Norway is far more wooded. No new tree saplings can survive anywhere where the deer can browse; they are as bad as goats. They do indeed roam far and wide across the Scottish hills exactly like feral goats. This is why I don't simply dismiss the idea of wolf-reintroduction. Can people co-exist with wolves though?

Across the EU farmers are compensated if their livestock is taken by wolves; and if I know anything about human nature there are a lot of spurious claims going on. I seem to recollect that there is a specialised breed of sheepdog which actively seeks out and attacks wolves. I also have a recollection that some farmers in Europe include a llama in their sheep flock and the llama will pick a fight with any wolf which comes near. Curiously, the wolves usually opt out if a dog or llama challenges them. They are looking for easy meat rather than glory in battle.

I am far from convinced by the idea of bringing back the wolf, but if they ever do I will be intrigued to see how it goes.